010 | Real Life Drama w/ Courtney Hayles

hello good people and welcome back to life is  sound today we've got a treat for you this is a   guy I've known for I couldn't even currently use  to be fair but it's been a while and every time   we've connected in life he's someone I'm just like  he really like that positive is that really him   and then over the years as I've known this guy  I realized that the energy that he carries is   so pure and I leave every interaction like so  we'll just give me a little nugget of energy and   I've just walked away like ah it's actually real  positive people that have like a profound effect   on your life and your interactions so I've always  appreciated that with this brother and today we've   got Courtney Hayles on and I'll let him introduce  himself as I let every guest introduce themselves   but we've known each other now I'd say 18 around  18 years which is mad to say and we've connected   over the years I asked him to come on the podcast  today and we're going to chop it up we're going   to talk about Courtney's Journey as a creative  and what he does so Coutney if you want to see   hello to the listeners and what you're about and  we'll get into it yeah how you doing everyone my   name is Courtney Wilson in this course rights and  then yeah um I'm a multi-disciplinary artist I've   been in the city for a long time and it's been a  blessed Journey um but for those of you that have   come into contact with me a lot of my thoughts  my words my ideas they all start from the pen   and then from there I can I just disseminate  that within my circles and let those ripples   just constantly keep going out and out and out  and out and just the sharing has to start from   that first initial thought so yeah I'm here how  you doing my brother I'm good you know I'm good   I'm not when you said yeah I'm gonna come and do  the podcast you start thinking about the timeline   of well how long have I known this guy a memory  so my first full memory of like interacting with   you and leaving like yo he's proper safe you know  he's a sound guy was I think we're in town like it   would have been a club night somewhere our Circles  of circles are like just so many Circles of people   that know each other and we've all interlinked  over the years and I remember like we were all   just chatting saying hello and I remember just  leaving like yo that guy's probably cool man he's   a nice guy and then over the years but one of the  things I remember I was like well he's not from   Manchester where is he from so the interest Sparks  because when you hear a different accent in your   city but you're so familiar with my friends I'm  like who is this guy man how do my friends know   this guy like why is he here in Manchester so what  what's your background bro like because you've   been here for a while so what was your journey of  uh getting to Manchester and you know being in the   city here yeah so um so I moved up here in 2000  and 2019 yeah um originally it was just um to come   up for University study contemporary theater and  performance Manchester night and then essentially   it was just to just the first time was I thought  I was just going to do three years bang later   straight back yeah but what ended up happening  is I remember this isn't the start of my journey   I remember going down Market Street and I was  online at my two suitcases like back in the day   yeah we used to actually carry two suitcases yeah  and I'm walking and I'm just looking around and I   remember this moment I remember seeing I stopped  on Market Street and um hold that Rio I seen him   there he was he handed me a CD and I was like no  problem cool but then me and him Circle back and   grab the CD from him and then we just from there  we we're just we're brothers are left that's mud   yeah that's the treadmill so but there was a  moment that stood out to me and the moment was   I started seeing different pockets  of people hanging out and I was and   I realized that I was one person and I'm going  right look at those man them hanging together then I started looking at the buildings  I started looking at the graffiti and I   started looking at the artists on the streets the  buskers I started looking at people in the cars   the music was sounding I've gone you know what I  want all of that so I went to um a Photoshop and   bought one of those little handheld cameras here  we didn't have the mobile too tough and I started   taking pictures of people and things so I took a  picture of a group of guys I was like yeah I said   one day I'm gonna have some friends like that  took fresh just loads of different inspiration   went past all the fears all the spaces and started  taking all these pictures and that was me going   okay so I'm actually I'm in  Manchester so once I started   um once I was embedded in the city I like you  know basically I started working from the jump   studying was my university life wasn't as  conventional as a most students it was part work   and part networking which I didn't  understand I was networking in the beginning   my thing was I need to meet people the  fact that I've been able to leave London   and come to Manchester I already knew that that  was my Edge so I used to meet people really   quickly hence our interactions would have been  bubbly yeah yeah because I was just I realized   it very quickly that I have an opportunity  to choose people to be my family for life   that was something I had it became when you're  on when you work from survival mode you start   to think about what that looks like yeah so  when I met people and they were like I'll   show you around let me take you around let  me let me show you my friends or let me show   you that see I'm looking at them I'm not I'm  saying yes but I'm also looking at them going   okay please please please dislike each other yeah  because the fact that you're doing this for me   is I'm gonna I'm gonna remember this because  I remember those acts of kindness that is a   free thing it's nothing to cost nothing you  know and I already know my worth at this time   so fast track the city graduated 2005. um  started getting very heavily involved in   Creative Industries deep in education I mean  I think within my second year of University   whatever I was learning in there I was teaching  kids on the street yeah that's a fact you know and   um I was just sharing as much as I can I was  always writing whatever you need here take it I   don't know what do we do with it once I graduated  I got very got busy in them creative Industries   still doing the education but there were so many  youngers under me that were just now I you know   I saw it very very clearly that I can give you  an opportunity that I didn't have and I'm okay   to give it to you freely but I don't know what I  didn't know is that I met the the Helm of those   choices yeah so all those youngers that are coming  under they're looking at you and you're going   yeah this is what you need to do but what I was  giving him was what my dreams felt like you know   feeding them feeding them feeding them and I  met I started meeting so many people you know so   many people it's like my mum sometimes says to me  she says you know your life's like a movie in it she's like you need to stop and think about  what where you started to where you are now   to who you know to what you've done in this city  and the fact that you still smile regardless but   we're gonna get into that part anyway  this is what I wanted to ask you like   where this comes from because as I said  when we were met I would have been Young   maybe 18 and growing up where I've grown up you  come with a certain mindset you know you've been   you've been around certain people we've all come  up a certain way life was a bit Aggie about that   and everyone was a bit you know garage days and  you know Good Vibes but bad vibes in the clubs as   well that kind of ended as we got to around 18 but  the mindset of being you know younger from 15 16.   when I bumped into someone like yourself and  you were just pure positivity my mindset then   was like he can't be that positive and I remember  it took a few interactions with you for me to go   nah that guy is genuine rather people like that  are that genuine it's not a friend oh [ __ ] so   you really shifted my mindset like in life of just  seeing someone who is a high vibrational person as   I've got older and my mindset shifted you know  life's happened and I see the world completely   different my vibrations come up and then we've  linked on that level then I've started to realize   every time we've linked the energy I get from you  and the connection that we have I'm just like yo   corny is just a good guy man like a positive Guy  where you interact with people whether it's in a   creative way or I might say yo bro I know we not  spoke for a while but I'm going through this the   words you give to people in that moment even  though we might not seen each of five years or   we might just crossed paths in the street like  yo bro it's saying you're good the words you've   given me in those moments have always been quite  parallel like powerful and I've reflected like   call is a good dude you know so where where  does that come from bro what's the journey   that's that's got you there has it been  nurtured from family has it been instilled   you know from Generations before you what's  made you carry that energy through life and   like you said you know you were already there  at 19 coming to Manchester or even earlier   saying what does my life so you had that maturity  you did trying to design your life at that age   where where does that come from yeah so it comes  from an um a couple of couple of spaces and I can   I can touch on them really well with you brother  so I can go I'm from I've got a beautiful family   structure it you know like all families things  are Peak things you know what I will say is   um from a very young age there were some very raw  truths that were shown to me all based on making   sure that I would grow and mature into the man I  am from a very young age and it was underpinned so   because of that I had a I was allowed to be a kid  yeah but I had an under my family had to ensure   that I had a grip on the world that you're a  young man being raised by all of these women   and you've got a couple of discourses in your life  that are gonna shift and cause you some pain and   as the women raising the masculine man we're  going to come into Conflict at some point and   not understand how to comprehend how to get your  mind in that space so I'm I'm bodied with with   um with empathy can you hear that yeah  the feminine side but in the masculine   are bodied by empathy bro like females in my  life have been the the strength I've learned a   lot from my dad but I didn't grow yeah and the  impact of seeing strong females in my family   you do realize you do carry that feminine energy  and you do miss that that masculine side and   even though my dad has served me with you know  real life truths and that came from my Grandad   which have probably been passed on from his dad  and they've really shaped my masculine side but   there's a power when you're raised by strong  women in the family yeah I agree I agree I   agree I agree I I also say is that um you eat  I enjoyed being raised by all those women you   know but I also enjoyed the conflict of trying  to figure out who I was and that comes from the   different discourses in my family you know great  best and birth like doing so much truths there's   another person I'm gonna touch on my grandma  she was like the Helm of the family that was it   you know we're talking Sunday dinner and  everyone's there yeah yeah people that don't   go Church were like yeah I've got to go to church  you know so I got a chance to visit my grandma's   house on top of that I am a product of being  raised by my grandma in the 80s yeah I'm talking   cleaning jobs in the city in the city center  London age four with the the Henry Hoover yeah   my sister running to jump on a bus we're talking  cracker Dawn Behavior a bunch of keys on my side   she happened to trust us she's going in that  office block to clean and me and my sister are   going in that one and we're having to and it was  just having to tell me treat it like a game and   my sister's if I'm four my sisters what six yeah  she's like listen you gotta go up these lifts just   get those bags and bring them down I'm like yeah  so in those way in those spaces and then when we   would do all of those jobs and calm down and we'd  see how my grandma was treated and she'd tell us   like you see this money what we're making this  is what this does and this is why you're doing   it yeah and then when we would eat together she  said you see how you eat instead of food to feel   good for you and I'm like yeah she go because you  work for it yeah so we're starting to see on my   mind's starting to understand value of things from  the smallest space yeah yeah moving forward just   in London random just in general in general things  move quick you age quicker um just because there's   just so much going on I didn't realize there  were things that I was doing yeah sorry mum yeah but really when I look at it now that's what that  was that mindset of like an 18 year old 19 year   old but it was normalized what was good is that  along my path I think my path is being ordered   because just one of the points when I wanted to  sort of Veer off I had friends they were like now   of course that's not your path mate yeah that's  not for you you're supposed to be the one that   holds us down you're the ones you're the ones but  when we see you we're supposed to see you go into   school that's what we want to see we want to see  you going to school and coming back we want to   hear that you've been grounded today like what  does that feel like do you know so all of those   blessings and all of those sort of sort of  limitations and lessons and stuff sort of   helped me to form and shape an appreciation for my  life and I have really I know loads of people but   I understand the importance of an incubated Circle  yeah yeah yeah but that incubated Circle doesn't   mean that you're shut off from the world it just  means that there's been such a heavy investment in   understanding what it means to be a good person or  to love your friend love your boy love your girl   argue with them whatever it is be there really  be there like if you say oh I was thinking about   this idea and for as that good friend remembering  coming back to them two weeks three weeks a year   later you go yo listen you remember the idea  you're saying I've come out with this not just   before maybe with something you've written in that  incubated Circle as long as that was strong and   that was it was we always I was always feeding it  nurturing that space what ends up happening is my   perception and perspective of the world was always  in that space so whenever I met people it was   always from love first yeah yeah you know listen  we can get busy but it was always loved first I'm   like I'm seeing you because I'm going maybe we can  build something together yeah and that's something   doesn't always as you know as you get older it's  not always about work that's something could just   be brave can you just be of someone that I know  that you I can call on or you can call on me   and that's where when I've come up here into  Manchester it's just a it's a chance I literally   put my hand on the map and when Hotel education  I was like that doesn't look far yeah yeah and I   ended up here and I was told my mama was going  up the road and she's like all right cool his   name is in Manchester yeah so now I was here it  was a case of me just meeting anyone and everyone   and having a good time and just trying to get  to know him and and also being please invite   me into your friendship circles but telling them  as well like yeah I really want to know you yeah   yeah yeah which who who even says that that's a  rare thing right that will throw people off like   I want to get to know you like it's not in  our natural thing where people our culture   like British culture is very like what what we  want to get to why what do you want from me like   that's how we're kind of we're very standoffish in  a way in it and our our people are our people but   the process that you said about you know coming  up here and the energy that you've given out   I've seen you do that through the years and it  continue and we've always said we know we're   gonna connect on something at some point and we  try to think you know when was it last year or   the year before and the project didn't fully  like resolve but I realize these connections   we've always known something we're going to do  something at some point so when I've shouted you   you know come and do this podcast straight  away yo bro it's perfect time I'm ready and   when you've got people like that that you can show  and they're just down for a conversation or to do   something creative that thing might not lead to  the big thing you think but you never know what   it will transition to the next creative thing in a  year or two or three years or five years ten years   just when you keep those connections with people  you never know how they're going to transpire   whether that project resolves and it's complete  and it's released to the world or it lasted   a week and it didn't fully reach its creative  potential but I noticed when we have connected   you know the projects I did ask you to  get involved in but you were so committed   and there was no Courtney I'm gonna pay you  this bro it's at the moment there's nothing I   can really you know financially give to you  and you're like bro say no more I'm on it   I've realized that my perception of you  is you're a true artist like you you're   you know you're a writer you've you're involved in  you know the drama side of of Life there you know   in that world which from my life as a musician  it's a weird thing like we all do the same thing   but it's very different so I can stand and admire  someone else's craft and be like what what must   it be like to be in that world because you know  it's like I know what writing's like I know what   creating a stories like putting it  together putting that out into the   world I know what performance like but it's a  different thing so what is your process like   when you approach somebody else's project or  even talk about your own projects as well because   you you do a lot you're somebody who has  never stopped being creative and to make   a living out of being creative is not easy so  like what what's your process would you say   I say my first part of my process um this is  how Jesus my grandma's line listen more slowly   and with that by listening more slowly when  you're whenever I approach a project whether   it's my personal projects or whether someone  asks me it's the point where I have to take in   what is being said and then by allowing that  allowing the idea to marinate and it's often   sporadic as you know when you've got an idea like  oh brother I've got this thing I want to kind of   do yeah it's going to kind of work you know  and then yeah it's going to do this you know   just tell me what the project is and tell  me what you want that's where I start from   do what do you want also is what do I want and  where do I sit within those ideas then because   within that I I what do I want what do you want  there's also can you do it Courtney like do you   want to do it yeah to see all hearing all the  ones can you do it Courtney do you want to do it   how much do you want to do it yeah and each  time I'm clearing all of this up in like seconds   because the natural thing for me as an  artist is yeah I want to just be creative   because we're taught nowadays that to be seen  as to be an artist is to be busy doing random   stuff but ultimately if you keep doing lots  of random projects that are all they could be   beautiful projects but if it's not along  your your branch you will lose yourself   you do not you end up creating work but you  create nothing for yourself yeah and you can   be part of people's projects and this is where  I'm linking up the line when when you approach   me with one of your projects yeah you can  you can do a project for someone with someone   and not have not bat an eyelid and worry  about yo what about what where do I sit in it   if you if you know it's for you and if it's for  that and you're doing it for the right reasons   that is the contribution to your own Ripple do  you get what I'm trying to say so for me when   I create something when I create work or I'm  approached to do work it's straight away about   the Synergy between myself and that project can  I connect with it and am I gonna and am I gonna   give my very best yeah nine times out ten is  the street yeah of course I am because I love   the person anyway to get what I mean yeah when  I create my personal work oh that's the journey   because the vision of it has been existing immune  for Moon many moons yeah so I've got my last time   my lifetime now so you know listeners I know  you're feeling this but I've got my lifetime now   yeah my lifespan and my experience is that I can  comprehend but then prior to that my subconscious   mind they're a thing when I have ideas they have  come I don't even know where they come from so   that must be another life that's something else  I've stepped into yeah so when it comes to my own   work the conflict the war that I go through to  decide that I'm going to do this piece of work   he goes on his own Journey but I do a lot of that  process in my head this is my part this is my   artistic practice actually so I will write a whole  play top to bottom 100 Pages 200 Pages whatever   it is top to bottom in my head I'll probably do  in a couple of days so yeah and then the pro and   then putting pen to paper once I've done I've  written the first page out I know how long the   rest is going to take me yeah so once I'm now in  that creative space in terms of creating my work   there's always a conversation I have with all my  eyes it's listen what you know is what you know   but what I'm about to offer you is a different  perspective where we can do this like ethically   together meaning I've got a very clear Vision  however if you see something different please   share it yeah and if it tops trumps my my vision  we're coming in with it and a new lead you lead   so I have no I have no heirs and Graces about  oh I'm the director or I'm the I'm the lead this   person because everything's a tone Key System do  you know everything's a turnkey system you know   it's like you create music but then boom an artist  might come in this the artist's term to step up to   go in the booth and do what the what the artist  does once the artist is done and now oh listen   I need to go back to the engineer see you mate  Engineers times it's your time and if we could   just remember that as creatives then actually the  way the ways that we type we create work and the   ways and the p and the ways that we create and we  interact with people's art it means it wouldn't be   transitory because we know what that feels like  and this is where we say I'm just I'm touching   on that line about why it's struck it's hard to  be an artist is because it actually is hard to   the first moment when you tell someone about your  idea we've all been there you're telling someone   that you think that you admire or you respect or  you think would understand and you see it in their   eyes they're just they're listening to you but  they're not there but your mouth is moving your   mouth is moving now because you're aware that's  the first time that you're speaking your idea out   and you don't always speak it in the way you've  been envisioning it for the last two years   or however long and then when you finish that  conversation you go why did I say that way because   that's so someone can never full that Vision  you've got in your mind those words that are   you can never create it a hundred percent the way  you see it I've I'm I'm a musician I'm a producer   I'm a writer I've done it for more than half  my life I remember being at my friend's house   uh I'd had a smoke I was high I was at his back  door my friends were in his living room yeah I'm   at the back door and I'm looking up to the sky  bro I heard a whole classical music composition   in my head I don't know how to get that out of my  head because I can't write music I can't go and   you know put that on paper in music notation and  give it to an orchestra and go hey this instrument   was doing this it was so complex I actually sat  there and I think I shared a tear because I was   like I heard it clear as day bro but I can never  get that out of my head into the form of what I   heard ever because I don't have the full skill set  to do that but I have the creative mind to hear it   if I was to tell someone oh I heard this I heard  the violin do this and then there was a cello   doing this and there was a big Crescendo that went  here and there must have been about 18 instruments   the person I'm telling that to is not receiving  that thing that I heard and that's the hardest   part about being a creative and an artist is  having the vision the idea whether you try and   do it all yourself if you're if you need help  with that idea to make it you know as close to   that thing that you think you can get it because  I believe we can only ever get close we can never   fully get there because when you see something  on film or you hear something in a song you might   love it how close was it to that original idea it  might be 98 it might be 80. but I don't think we   can ever get 100 and that's why we struggle to let  things go because there's something ever finished   but I think that's such a good point like to  say you know when you choose to open that up   to somebody it's a really difficult thing  to do and this is why I see you as a true   creator of an artist because you don't  get involved in projects like where you   like is this going to make me look cooler how  much credit am I going to get for this thing   how do I come across in this thing when this  thing's finished do I look like a sick guy   I don't see you as someone approaching  out like that I see you someone is like   how good can this thing be and I think that's  a beautiful thing that you just said it took   me back to being in the studio or you know  with my friends when we were younger and   someone's got this melody or this chorus  you've been writing that chorus for a week   at home you're coming into the studio yo boys  I've got this fire chorus he shows someone and   they might go sick amazing boom put it down you  might show someone they go yes it's all right   you think it's the best thing ever when you get  that lay it down you're like sit they love it   then the toughest part is a creative is is  the battle with ego when you're creating in a   environment with other people you might have this  chorus which was sounds incredible super catchy   someone might come in and go oh you see that  line there I was thinking that could be that   you might not agree with that because you've had  this set in stone for weeks for months for years   that's the hardest part I think of collaborating  as a creative is stepping back and going you know   his melody or her Melody is actually stronger and  what you said there I think is a real life lesson   for creatives like you said you're not like I'm  the director I'm doing this I get the final say   it's who's bringing the strongest idea and are we  all in agreeance that this thing here might be a   little bit stronger than this here okay I've got  to get on my own way and my own ego and realize   it's for the great good of the art and that's  how I perceive you as someone who approaches   approaches creativity as like for the greater  good of this thing that none of us know where   these ideas come from like you said you'd be in  this in the shower and you thinking I've got to   do this today banging ideas comes into yet from  nowhere you weren't even thinking about this idea   but it's just like someone just went there's an  idea now your mind's a thousand miles an hour and   you don't even want to think about today's work I  need to get this thing out of me and it's such a   strange thing that we all experience in different  ways but you really to me are someone who   approaches art for the greater good of art whether  it's your uh other people's art and that's another   thing that resonated you said you know the battle  with yourself when it's your personal stuff and I   can relate to that when I make my personal  music my artist music that's a real battle   man when you're taking real life experiences  and putting them into a creative form battling   with what should this sound like am I saying  the right thing how am I being perceived as an   artist is this too real am I sharing too much of  myself do I want people to see this vulnerability   that's a really push and pull battle that I  think we all have like I've been in a band   with my friends I didn't really have that push  and pull as much because you got other people   around you like no bro trust me this is right  actually I think this is wrong yeah we might   not be heading down the right path there when  you're on your own and you're doing it and I   know you're someone that writes a lot on your own  you know similar to me I think you spend a lot of   time creating creatively on your own as well as  collaborating that push and pulleys vet is very   real and what would you say like the real life  dramas you've experienced in life you know the   things that are just not related to why it's just  the things you've experienced just going through   life we all experience these tough moments  that we just don't get a choice about we can   be going through life and everything's sweet  and you might get blindsided by one of the   biggest things that's happened to you in your  life however you transitioned those things and push them through into your art like what  would you say some of the biggest things   that you've been through if you don't mind  talking about and how that's ended up in   your creative flow yeah so there's a couple  that will just jumping that into my mind   so obviously you've had the softer side of  like me moving to Manchester from London making that decision to move to Manchester was  there was one part where it was quite a flippant   choice and the immature Choice Young Star but then  there was also a a focus I've got two brothers   and life was moving differently down in London  you know I weren't a bad boy I was in the mix you   know when I I tried to be in a bit because I like  to say I like to say I tried to be in the mix but   I had a lot of responsibility to my friends and  there was just a couple of Secrets of events that   just kept happening and it was random because I  kept looking at my brothers and I remember just   going no I'm gonna move and I'm gonna and I knew  the sacrifice because what was going to happen is   I was going to build a life up here which means  my journey with my brothers was going to stop   they're little and the only guarantee I could have  was if I bust through up here then I could go you   can come and you can do any any whatever you want  to do on Manchester whatever you need you can   do it and this is why that was a massive burden  on my soul because of the same breath of that I   ended up you know working with some beautiful  people um shock out the big dance provision now   a university but in the inertia of it it was  like four students four students in Liverpool   now what I'm trying to say where they're the  connection to my brother is my brothers are   and my family is I'm training and working  with young kids the same age as my brothers   and my nephews or my cousins ones that I love  and I'm pouring love into these little ones   you know and we're talking from the age of four up  and now those my in my lifespan they're all adults   who know me like courts you've been in my life for  15 years 18 years and then I look at my brothers   who are just so beautiful and they're big and I've  got little disconnects with them because of the   time so that was a massive one a massive like a  massive burden of my a massive sacrifice that's   you know it enforces my art all the time but  just me as a human those challenges to keep going   um I like to always I want to mention this one um  I remember when I am I lost my house like properly   lost my house done and my whole relationship broke  down all at the same time and I was like homeless   for like 18 months you know and I'll say on the  negative side it was the most traumatic thing ever   I mean imagine this like Bravada putting your  hand in your litter box to get your letters um signing on at the gym it's just so you can shower  gotta keep clean you know what I mean to hear the   negative and positive so I was training but I  was like no way this homeless situation is not   defeating me in this way but I've got to figure  this one out you know working in a sandwich shop   and haven't been told every morning  gotta make like 800 baguettes like   before like nine o'clock yeah that's something  with like some anything bread now yeah you know   and then that reminded of me of my childhood  it's like learning how to be a self-sufficient   man you know knowing how to cook for yourself  and working from nothing so these are the other   positive spins and the net you know how this is  how I navigated these such these circumstances   but during those times and I've thrown those two  in um I remember that I thought the world was that   was it I was like this is rock rock bottom this  is it I I failed completely and then I remember   um watching them Pursuit for happiness like just  randomly just just put it on the TV just sat there   telling myself I need to watch it so these times  what's that 2012 2012 2011 2012 those two so I'm   I'm still around we probably would have not  crossed paths yeah you know what's good you're   right bro what's happening probably done my little  raving whatever you but knowing that my life   realistically my structure was broken down I'm  still I'm still teaching I'm still giving still   doing my bits and pieces you know they you know  but the reality of it is my world is upside down   and I remember sitting down watching Pursuit  for happiness and the reason I watched it is   because I said I'd been so strong for so long  and in survival mode for so long that I didn't   know how to cry I wasn't crying I was going  through all of this stuff but I wasn't crying   you know and I remember so I said I said I need  to see something else I need to understand someone   that I need to need to see and I remember so I  remember what sitting down watching Will Smith   and you know in that scene when he's in the in  the train station he's like trying to hook the   door and he's like he's just holding his son  he's bawling and I remember just like just   randomly disappeared that's coming down my  face and I remember just it just kept coming   and I walked to a mirror and that's and it's  looking at myself and I've gone I've gone now this   is what pain feels like Courtney is this sadness  are you actually sad are you are you authentically   sad so my brain is like going I'm going why am  I why am I breaking down my own physical form   and this point but it's because I've been strong  for too long and I didn't want to dismantle that   strength to a point where it's like no that's the  reason why I I needed to get a balance and that   was a point of having to go forward I'll never  ever forget it and I wrote my best work I had the   best time in those in those in that 18 months that  point of being free to be anything you want to be   and that point of going if this is that moment  where you literally restart your engine this is   what it looks like because there is no one in the  real world you know you know our society Behavior   you if people know you a certain way and  then your life is that way like you okay   we're blessed with you and I we're blessed  people so we've got enough people around us   like don't worry what are you doing come  and see her come and see us but if you're   the same person who's not inclined to speak into  people you're used to being the vessel of giving   you take all of that burden on  yourself don't you yeah yeah   so going through that process taught me and showed  me how powerful I what I am I remember the one   thing I did is I gathered all my work that was it  when I couldn't get into the flat and all of this   stuff I gaveled all of my work it was closed you  could we need clothes but my work because I was   like No And I remember lining it all up and going  one of you in here one if you were getting me out   of this I don't know which one it is I'm looking  at all this paper and I'm talking to this paper   stuck a plastered everywhere I was like that was  it so it was that self-belief there my friend yeah   yeah so there are always carried through had to  in the darkest times I had to that resonates a lot   like my darkest moment was and I spoke about this  on the podcast like when my girlfriend passed away   I was in a band with my friends we were doing  pretty well we'd been in the industry to the   highest levels experience being signed seeing  the bright lights all that stuff then it you know   coming down a bit but we're still at a point where  it was like do we want to still you know have a go   at this do we still believe and we're like yeah we  still believe by the personal you know loss which   just put me in a different space and I didn't know  who I was in relation to the world anymore and I   didn't know if I was in relation to the bandest  thing that I was essentially like a lead singer   with my friends like people are looking to me  like yo you're ready you're ready to come back and   I was so lost in the world at that point but one  thing that saved me was I just picked up a guitar   that I'd never played before as I'm going to teach  myself guitar and in doing that I was writing   these songs that I would have never written  before because that wasn't the artist that I was   but this real life experience that changed  me my voice changed when I was singing I went   from using my throat and singing really hard  to singing soft with emotion I remember just   playing these chords that I was learning and as I  was getting better you know after three months six   months I was like I can play a full song but I'm  crying singing these songs that were all pretty   much about losing my girlfriend but that thing  there are a recorded songs but never to release   it was just that's part of my process you know  if you write something it's really hard to just   leave it in the ether of it not being a thing  you can come back to and listen it's a really   difficult thing you know if you have an idea as  a writer you're not putting pen to paper and then   being able to flip back in three years time  and go oh that's where I was at at that point   these things are like small documentations  of our journey and our personal experience   but it was the art that saved me but I also had  to let go of a an artist that I knew that was a   really weird transition because I was this guy  this artist this musician performer in a band   life would change me I was a different artist no  I was a different writer and I really struggled   to go back and they did lead me to you know  making the decision to leave leave the band   that was a tough decision man because these are my  brothers these are my boys but my life Journey was   in a different space and it wasn't I'm gonna leave  I'm gonna be on my own I'm gonna blow it was just   mentally I can't do that at the moment and  I have those doubts as a creative like was   that the right decision but I also now as  this point in my life as this person no   you're always exactly where you are meant to  be when you were going through that toughest   time and you know you lost your house in your  relationship at the same time you were exactly   where you were meant to be for the cree if  that you are for those lessons to be learned   to then transform that into uh put that out and  inspire people in other ways or be be allowed to   take that real life pain and when you're teaching  kids about how to be a writer or a performer   you're tapping into that lowest point it can't  be all like Glitz and glamor it's not like I feel   like true creatives really have to suffer for  the for their art we have to feel that you had   to you had to drop that too you can't go through  life as a creative without crying bro you can't   do it please we just can't do it so my thing now  is at this point and I know where you know we're   more mature at this age we we reflect on life  a bit different as the years are rolling on   but I'm a big believer that when you're going  through a dark time that is where the most growth   happens and when you come out of that period  you like a new version of you with a whole   new perspective on approaching everything and how  tough would you say your journey as an artist has   been because anyone who's a creative it's very  rare you get those stories where someone starts   at 15 and it's just up up up up I think the only  story I've heard like that is John Mayer he seem   to have like started gigged next gig was a bigger  gig gig after that was a bigger gig and he just   never stops he just went went but I'm sure if  you spoke to him he would have his own take on   that in his own Journey but how how hard has you  have you found it as an artist like as a creative   from when you say you started to to where you're  at now which I know it's hard to feel that into   you know a few paragraphs or you know 10 minutes  but how hard would you say it's actually been so before I tap on that I just want to say to you  that you know when you talked about the darkness um because I just like our freelance when you're  in the darkness there's how you get through that   darkness is your gratitude if you can't exit to  get through your Darkness shift you have to accept   that you're in your Darkness yeah yeah and in that  point that's the one that's one of the most rawest   states where you feel all of your urine you have  a full license and acceptance in your body to go   upon the world or burn that or blame that  person or because of this and am I going to be   accountable no I'm not going to be accountable  because it's this and this situation and that   situation or you know it's that darkness is  the most truthful space that you will ever be   in because it is it is like the cousin of anger  you know when you're angry you allow yourself to   be angry you might want to flip a table you flip a  table don't you yes because I'm angry but Darkness   has a different type of thing because it says  depending on how you behave in this play in this   space your outcome at the end once it all subsides  because everything does yeah would it be you're   determined the denominator for the next couple of  years of your life so I just wanted to touch on   that because yeah yeah the darkness that Darkness  phase and is about there's Beauty in there if you   are brave enough to understand it and  there's a very strange thing now I've   learned more about the mind I've studied  language the subconscious changing programs   there's a very weird thing there's a conflicting  thing as I'm learning the logic to behaviors   I've also experienced Dark Times depression as  an artist and it is a part of us that likes to be   there because we're Gathering Intel while we're  in that place we're gathering information so   I know a lot of humans you know we keep ourselves  there's always a reason we we can keep ourselves   in these spaces for longer it might not even  be a creative person you know they might have   a dependency on drugs or alcohol or there's  something serving them to be in this space   because they can say oh I'm this which means I'm  behaving like this well I think for creatives   is a part of us that kind of likes to be there  because we know we're gaining something from that   and as I've learned this other side it's a really  strange thing to learn the behaviors and know how   to change it but then also really appreciate the  side of it as an artist where when we're in these   spaces I know it's serving the art the thing  that's going to come like you said two three   years later where you look back and go well  how that thing I went through then in you know   whatever year it was now that's coming through to  my creativity and that's a really strange thing to   experience different timelines where you  think oh I'm done with that period of my life   and as an artist you might as a person you  might feel like you've moved on but as an artist   I'm going to draw from that I can hop back to  that experience and still pluck from that and   one thing I had a new respect for you was when  you invite I don't know where we crossed past   but you invited us to a show and I think I  came with Simeon so I think maybe you bumped   into one of us or both of us and you were  like come down to this show we're doing this   I'm doing this showing I remember coming to that  and I just it was the first time I had witnessed   your project on a stage and I was Blown Away bro  I was humbled by the performers the age of the   performers the strength of them but then knowing  you'd put all this thing together and again I can   only sit from the artist perspective as a musician  as a writer getting on and getting on stage and   singing songs and knowing what that feels like  but as a Cree if you're breaking down all these ah   so there are they choose this and they they say  it like this and that's the Cadence for that and   why did they go this way so when it's hard  as a creative to watch something because   you're not just taking it in for what it is  it's a really difficult thing to do because   you're applying it to your perspective of  how you write in your creation but when I   watch that show and if you want to speak a bit  about that show I was just in the theater like   wow that was insane how difficult is  it to put a show like that together and   do you feel like hey how long have you been  doing those shows was that like the first one   because I could I just saw your journey  in that yeah and you weren't performing   in that but I could see you in it so I'll say  is this um I've been in Manchester 20 odd years   my steps are not by chance there's a there's  there's been a focus for such a long time   and within that process I've touched a lot  of spaces and I've also shared ideas and   collaborated freely and from behind the scenes  because sometimes someone's just ready to go yeah   do you get what I mean I'm not probably wasn't  emotionally mature enough to ready to take that   step but could see that Vision clearly  so go go and run with it yeah you know   um so when I have the opportunity to when I get  an opportunity to create from Myspace it comes   out in things like imprint which is with young  identity which I'm associate artistic director for   um um that piece what I found is funny interesting  because we were saying I remember seeing you in   the audience when you're talking and stuff  putting that piece together being in the   moment with those artists it was like for me  it's Art Is War for me yeah yeah and it's like   if I'm in here then you're in here and that clocks  don't exist if someone catches a clock can you   manage the cow in time boy you got lucky yeah you  know but the process only becomes all-encompassing   Not only was it important for me to understand the  level of the artists the writers the performers   but also it was important for me to understand the  words behind it the meaning I needed to understand   them because they the words were just they they  went so far into my cerebral I went so intricate   yeah I had to actually at once they tried to avoid  not having to make notes I was like no no I can   [ __ ] figure that day that that word sounds kind  of cool and it's like no I need to know what it   means once I started understanding the meaning it  started it started informing the language on stage   and it started I started I was able to then  learn just what I needed to strip away and   I was like I remember a division came to us it  has to just be about their bodies it's just them   and their movement and it's the sequencing so  the different formations that you saw within that   piece were just the sequences that I was seeing in  my head of how I was breaking down their language   and then through that I had lots of one-to-one  conversations with the different young people   to figure out like this is your time this is  your piece what does your piece stand for this   is what it means to me this what does it stand  for for you and who in if there was someone in   the audience that you were afraid to have in the  audience who you'd be the most nervous to have   that conversation with or who who would that be  I've got that information yeah yeah and we invited   those things yeah yeah but the bottom line of it  was is that the peace became so authentic because   now I'm operating from a space I'm I'm operating  from once I got around the time frame of how long   I had to turn it around I think it's like two  weeks or something like that it was something   crazy once I got that out the way my brain shifted  into and this is that darkest line right once I   shifted into that space you and I'm doing things  I'm having I'm having out of body experiences   because I'm going who's directing this is it  me because I'm saying this and this is working   or I'm figuring they're going they will turn to  me go what's this scene I'm going yeah that one   goes there and that will happen here that's it  right cool let's go I'm going who's done that   but you know it's been in my body because I've  been doing theater and I've been directing that   and I'm an observer I watch everything I  go to shows all the time I go to things   I sit on my own I I watch things four times  over you know I just I just like absorbing   I just absorb stuff so when I have  my opportunity I see it all clearly   and I just and it comes out as it's  a release yeah it is literally like a   because I understand that aren't that when  we get this opportunity to create something it can take Years bro you can I've got to play  on my desk that when I first wrote it came to me   like a dream 13 years later 14 years later this  place still hasn't hasn't seen its last day but   now in my 20th year in Manchester I found someone  who's ready to look at they're like yo where's   this come from I've gone 20 years 12 years ago  they're like what and I'm like I've been trying   to like know your emotionally mature for it now um  so you have to understand that Journey yeah yeah   so yeah so this when I when  distance comes down to creating and   how I see things it's very clear and it's it does  match up like there's there are some things pop   but there were loads of things about my life  that are not by chance bro like you know um and   this relates to that question about how we how I  overcome those struggles and what that feels like   um when you've done this amount of years what  happens is it's a gift and a curse because there   are people that know if I say a birthday present  people go I need to buy Courtney a pad and in one   size you go oh you know me but in the other side  you go that means you've known that I've been   trying to do this for this amount of time yeah  yeah how do I feel about that on top of that you   you go through so many different emotions  I mean I can tell you like just even   yesterday I received like my uh uh rejection  letter for a pro an opportunity to to basically   just learn be surrounded by the creatives that  I've had on my my vision board and they they felt   like the stage of my career and what I'm doing  supersedes it so can you imagine the complexity   the the the conflict I'm going but they're  on my mood board yeah yeah I hear who I want   to work with a York out there going looking at my  stuff and they're going now you've gone clear bro   the soul is the conflict because then the rest  of Life still has to move like as an artist you   either you either get through quite quickly and  you remain within your team and you go for your   ups and downs and then you start feeding and you  you essentially someone within the team buses and   um breaks through sorry yeah and then they feed  the team who's next within that Vision if that   was the intended part if that was the inertia  of the reason why you all came together yeah   the other version what happens is you're  a creative around many genius creatives   and you know life lives ups and downs some  people get through quickly and so forth and   so forth and you remain still waiting for your  moment that in terms in that in compared and in   comparison to when as you get older your wants  change you might start wanting different things   you know I remember waking up and it was like  yeah man I want a house like I've always wanted   a house but it wasn't a fort the the gravitas of  wanting it didn't wasn't as prevalent in my mind   as going out and trying to network and do some  filming or do some acting or whatever it was   so my wants have changed because I've evolved so  how did so now you've got your underline which is   this is my create it's my creativity  what I've been doing for all these years   and I have to do it so now you've got something  that in the real world which is going to provide   your foundation your security your home your  home bro your home your structure where you can   rest and paint and do whatever you want to do in  there now that's coming to conflicts now you're   realizing that your art is a sacrifice now you're  you are at that space of sacrifice and what does   this mean everything becomes high stake so how  I feel sometimes I feel overwhelming happiness   about my journey and then sometimes I feel the  most deepest sadness for why the whys and the   houses how this has this not happened in the way  that I've seen it in my mind and then I've also   experienced through chance meetings you know any  of those friends or those people let's go listen   I've just seen something you've done that really  moved me and you go oh I am on the right path so   how I've learned to navigate this journey  now where I am now right in front of you is   I actually know what I'm doing my thing my  line is um God has this God has the plan yeah   as human stuff you just have to walk the steps  with faith yeah as a human we will constantly   try and break down the convention that come on  let me just try and put you know you try to push   you know hmm but you have to just walk it and  believe it and I'm in that space now where   I know exactly what I need to do I even can see  the unknown part I've looked at my journey now and   the branch and the things I've created and there's  some things I now place in the miscellaneous pile   you know you know the parts where we've done great  stuff but you didn't know how to document it or so   forth and so forth yeah or there's a lot of pain  that's done and all the stuff that never sees the   light of day thank you that part of you that I  I related to putting songs or music to the world   there's so much stuff that never leaves the hard  drive or the computer or but that's still part of   your journey those things that like you said what  what was that that I did I just went through that   period of a year of just making that type of thing  well that was different but it was still a part of   your creative process and I think a big  thing you said there was sacrifice for anyone   coming into the world of creativity and you'll  experience it you know when you're teaching the   youngers and the parents are wanting them  to be a creative from this perspective now   at the age we're at I mean I've missed if  I think about early twenties a bit before   so many birthday parties so many family events  maybe weddings things that are like real memories   like you said you know if your brothers having to  sacrifice going to a different city you know you   sacrificing seeing your brothers grow up and  having that connection there's so much sacrifice   that goes into being a creative throughout  your life when you've been doing it this long   and also how people perceive you so I would  imagine for you to start right Courtney is a   writer he's an actor oh you've been on TV yet  anything I would have seen you in so those   things then you have this gauging mechanism also  people see TV as success so if I'm not on TV I'm   not successful so the strange thing is recently  someone said to me and initially my ego fled up   and I'm just paraphrasing but it was basically  I was talking about music and my journey   and we were kind of talking about like  spirituality as well and she kind of implied oh   X Y and Z is the reason you never made it so I'm  like oh your perception of me as I never made it   as a creative my perception though at this is like  you said is I wake up and get paid to be creative   I made it somebody pays me money to do what I  love to do in the world I made it maybe at 21   my perception of making it was being on TV which  we did with the boys we went on different TV shows   being on radio being on big stages that's making  it but as you get older unless you're trying to   stay in that world which is not an easy thing to  do that's a whole different battle which I'm kind   of glad I've not have not had my perceptions  change success to me now means I wake up   I want my dog I have a coffee have a shower I  sit down and I do what I love to do someone goes   there's some there's some peace for that thank  you that's that's success and that's one one thing   I would really like to say to people is don't  let other people's expectations of success Define   how you view your success because being a  creative is not easy it's years of being   dedicated to something we see a lot of  people on this path as well like we've   known each other for a long time so when I  connect with people like yourself and still   see people doing the thing they were doing  when we were 18. do you know how commendable   I'm like bro to see you being create I know so  many people are reaching this age MidFirst is   still doing the thing and I'll just throw  them a message and going bro we were doing   this from early man congratulations you're  still doing it and you look at someone like   a day or bipolar Sunshine who we know he's  gone clear he's living in L.A his music is   accumulating a crazy amount of streams every year  and I'm like to see where we've come from to that   dreams dreams happen but you know like you said  the people that you come up with everyone has   different paths and different Journeys and it's  hard not to compare sometimes when you you've come   from the same place but he's relayed a few truths  to me recently that I've like been so grateful   for of how he perceives me from where he's got  you know could you work on this for me because   I love how you mix tracks me and my world our  mixed song finish a song listen to another   guy's mixing God his mix is always on fire man  why does my stuff not sound like that but then   my friend my boy who's known me for ages is  listening to my stuff that I've been mixing going   Jay's stuff always sounds fire I'm going to ask  him to make some stuff so and I said it's crazy   how you perceive that because I don't perceive  my mixes how you perceive it then I'll ask the   question can you ever perceive your own art how  somebody perceives it so there's this complex   thing that even at this age all this experience  we have seeing our friends be super successful   we're still creative we're still making money  from being creative so we're successful as well   it's so strange that we still have these  conflicts even though we've gathered all   this experience with us 20 years plus  but we still have these doubts and what do you say to you know the people you're  teaching do you let them know how I'm sure you   do it's probably I'm answering the own question  but do you let them know like the work that   is involved in this thing if you're gonna be  committed this long yeah you know I was just   thinking about what you're saying there you  know and I'm it's really interesting because when you know yourself when you know yourself  you can start to begin to have an appreciation   and a hyper awareness of all of the wants and  needs and things all around you the people   that you perceive to LeapFrog you know go you  know you can have that when you know yourself   and then when such people you know that are now  gone super clear and they come back and they tap   in and they're like yo I love what you do you then  can start remember I said to you when you know   yourself you can then start to shift that energy  and go and yeah of course you would call me of   course yeah I 100 know myself that when you work  with me you will get exactly what you need it will   be something it will be what you need and what  you feel but it will it will embody what course   rights does yeah so there's that saying isn't it  everyone can pick up the pen but no one pickups   the pen No One writes the same if one picks up  a brush but no one paints that you know everyone   can pick up a paintbrush but no one's Strokes are  the same yeah you know I can have all of the same   mixing stuff that you have but it does not matter  how much generals and dummies I have around me   saying yeah press this button I will not be able  to do it the way that you do it so you have to   get to that space where it's like this is my craft  this is my thing so um and that thing is something   when you when you know say I'm doing my thing what  I like to do now is layer that when someone says   I see you doing your thing I go yeah you know  what I do if they if it doesn't go any further   I go yeah you know what I'm actually working on  this really amazing incredible script and it's   a melodrama and it's doing this I just throw  that out there whether they are capturing that   it's because I can't allow my thing I can't even  allow myself to demote my years in the game yeah   personally all right industry great but personally  when I'm at home when I'm thinking about it when   I'm in the shower when I'm walking when I'm making  those those decisions on how my life is going to   go those are things I cannot allow to I Can't  Forget so when I have the opportunity and I'm   going to branch on just a little touch on this  the Journey of the young people because I've got   a big thing about this right now at the moment  where you know we have to invest in the young   people and we do we will always do that however  I've got friends that are my age that are lost um   so what hang on hang on well I'm gonna keep  giving the little the little young jeez the the   trinkets when I've got people when it's guys my  age who I'm going to access for the help because   to support and to talk to that where what we're  just we're supposed to be lost in the wind no   so what I always say to the young people one of  them one of my tasks I was doing I always give   them a blank piece of paper before I work with  them and I go and write yourself on monologue   about yourself I don't care it can be a pain  it's a there's your piece of paper if you end up   writing two lines then that's what you've written  there's the accountability right there and then   it's before I've I'm trying to teach people before  you go and ask someone for something know what   you're asking yeah know what you're asking and  also it's teaching you to Value people's time   but also value your own mind if you don't know  what you're on and you've called someone out   you know you've articulated A really lovely  text email phone call whatever voice note and   then they've left their house you don't know  what their day's been like and then they come   and you have don't have the faintest  idea about what yours what you're saying   you've just seen something on the hype you've seen  someone that they've placed up you know I know you   get this a lot when you place because I I love I  love your work bro when I tell you openly yeah you   know I love your work and I love when you explain  yourself and you're like oh you know I haven't   done this for a while and I'm like bro just do  you're such a G oh yeah you're such a g bro you're   you're a technical genius in your game I see it  but that's the perception isn't it and these are   the years now you say yeah two years ago three  years I've got to a point where I'm like oh I'm   actually good at this thing because like I said  people people are willing to pay me exactly for   this and it's not always about money but that's  the thing that Society lets us gauge oh you're   doing well yeah but it's really made me realize  that maybe it comes with maturity and something   shifted and then conversations I'm having like you  know like with Adele who you know you're like he's   doing the numbers he's in he's in L.A he's got  that you know that is what we all would think   actors creatives musicians Hollywood he lives  literally in Hollywood he's smashing it like   unreal and it's when those conversations come back  you're like oh that's just he's still my boy from   like we may start making music at 15. it's still  that same connection and it's a musical connection   and it's a long journey of friendship and you  forget that because you've not done x amount of   numbers or you've not appeared on 20 TV  shows or whatever it is you forget that   you really are great and it's so strange and  that's again the conflict I'm saying it takes   sometimes another creative to tell you how great  you are because whilst you're in the process of 20   years experience you still forget along the way  of how good you are I'm going to add on to that   um you know what you do and it's one thing I do  and then I think I think a lot more if I should do   is give yourself some days times in your months  I don't know how you can figure out your sort of   flow to look just listen listen read look at your  work privately personally like appreciate it like   really play your music when we play other artists  and read over all these books and all of this   stuff and we're investing all that in these dope  people that have come up that have managed to get   their Creative Vision into a space where it's  now reached you you need to do the same thing   for yourself yeah I tell you I know before the TV  you know accolades mate that's in the Stars before   the TV accolades if I'm not even reading my own  scripts my own scripts that I've set month after   month years some some of those worked a job come  home chugged it didn't know if it was the right   form run done a rewrite and I've completed it end  to end and I can't sit myself and read my own work like I'm telling you taking time to invest  in your own craft which is just appreciating   what you do yeah and knowing where that  came from gives you all of the helps you   combat what Society teaches you about what is  the definition of making it I I now have my I   have my goals and I know what I like and I can go  yeah I would love to touch this and I touch that   however if you're not loving this part  this part this journey part in the middle   you're gonna miss the debt when you get you  up to your destination you're going to miss   it it's just going to be like a blip yeah it's not  you're not real you know and that will come in so   many different forms the wrong people be around  you you might be on your own it might not look   and feel how it's supposed to have felt you know  you might not process someone might someone read   someone you might have that chance moment where  someone asks you about your craft or your work I   said hey I really loved what you did and because  you'll be focused so far ahead you don't answer   that question the right way yeah so you miss it so  what was it all for so like the same thing when I   said well I do with my young people you know and I  stopped teaching for a while after I I just had a   massive after I had given my soul to these kids  because I really believed in them that I mean   they can I'm still in I'm still connected to them  to this day but I remember one kid in particular   Tilly she's doing big big big things but this  is what she said to me as I've said until he   was like maybe that 9 12 9 9 10 she said to me  I was going to teach and she turned to me and   I didn't know that she was already doing stuff in  the industry because she was traveling from Leeds   coming to Manchester and she turned to me and she  went when are you going to do for you Courtney   I'm like hmm she's like when are you good she  says when are you gonna give back to yourself   and I'm like what are you talking about I'm  like my mind I'm going tell it I love you now   but yeah you know then she's like so I said I  asked her what her day was like like what does   she do in her life and she started explaining  she looked at what picked up a script and then   she broke it down from her Indus what she does  in the industry and this is a youngster but her   information was extensive so I'm now going  do I need to take notes I'm saying this in   my mind I'm going do I need to take notes  Fast Track by the end of this conversation   I said to her you need to go and teach  her you need to go and teach the lesson   so she's like I can't teach I said dear you  can you've just taught a fully grown adult   you've just told me out of all of this given  you've just told me that I need to stop and   I need to go and focus and do something for  myself so I said you need to go and tell your   kids she's like my kids I said yeah you're the  teacher now you need to go and tell your kids   how this how this into how this war runs and  I'm going to sit as a student in your classroom   and I that's how I do it and I sat in  there watched her and I I've never seen   students respond in the way that they did the  light in the room because they were hearing it   from someone their own age and I realized how  they were looking at me now they're like well   you're older than us Courtney and you're  going to go this way and I used to always   say to the young people I said I said with the  information I give you you're going to Eclipse me   I said but I'm it's good I said because the  information I give you is gold it's from my body   it's from my soul it's from everything there's no  it's unfiltered so that journey and how it feels   for us you know struggling and being in these  years if we do not invest in our own craft and   that means by listening giving the love back  to our own work then we will mess up and Miss   opportunities interacting whether we're networking  whether it's collaborating whether it's hearing   someone else's art we'll miss all of those nuances  because we're lost and we can't be lost if we go   back to our own drawing board because that's what  we do it for 100 that resonates because I listen   to a lot of my old music I think because I I write  music create music produce it mix it engineer it   when you create it straight to the  car wherever I'm going in the car for   weeks if I'm getting ready to release a song  every journey is me listening intently every   time I step by the house airpods I'm listening  to that song but then years later I'll go back   to songs I release the even unreleased  stuff in it it made me realize recently   having a conversation with my friend a Dale  saying you know bro your mix is a on point   I'm like yeah and this is again struggling to  accept a compliment it's like you say that bro   but I was listening to some songs from 2016.  I didn't release them but whatever I was doing   at that point was golden because I'm listening  to those mixes like that wasn't me doing those   mixes everything is perfection placed perfectly  like happy time it was your happy space it was   it was me not going for the best of times but like  we said Throwing It All into that art and whatever   I was doing was perfect and it was actually a  time when USD came around to to my mum's guy   and I played you a couple of songs it was those  songs I listened to him recently and I'm like   wow that makes us the wrong point so now  I'm like I'm trying to reverse engineer   like what was I doing what was I listening to  at that point what was I getting inspired by   for those mixes to sound amazing and sometimes  you forget the knowledge that we've accumulated   because I'm a very practicing person so if  you ask me to make something sound this way   I can do it if you go Jay break down the steps of  everything you've done and what that does I'm not   going to give you the full technical analysis  I'll give you the roof because I don't fully go   into depth of these things it's just I've done  it since I was 15. so it's like an autopilot   thing and there's always going to be people  out there that you know you think are better   than you and there is people that are better than  you at a certain thing but we can't underestimate   how great we are you can't underestimate the  power of self yeah yeah because that's where   your wealth is bro you understand if you start  if you devaluate your wealth devalue yourself   and you what you do you allow yourself to be  susceptible to others to speak on you yeah and   you have to rate yourself in it because otherwise  and you know what one thing you said that's just   triggered something my girlfriend works out in  America a lot so she deals a lot with American   culture and again keep going back to Adele's  out there so he he's experiencing it and I   know obviously we've been there but I think  our culture is very reserved when we're like   I'm James what that's it what do you do James  that's like the next question I'm a music producer   other cool interesting people then have to  ask you more about that for you to reveal   more about that thing that's kind of our culture  Americans are more hey this is what I do this is   what I've done nice to meet you because within  that delivery they're opening themselves up to   opportunity this is what I this is who I am this  is what I do do you have anything we can exchange   to be successful their coach is more  about that this is me this is what I do   and the more open and forthright with it and I  feel like us British people in our like we were   more closed down we're more guarded I I'm corny  I do this you know so when you said that you talk   that extra thing I think we all need to do that as  creatives because we really like it we just go oh   yeah I'm just a music producer what do you mean  just the music producer like talk talk you talk   tell people what you do and I'm talking to myself  saying this because in that you're engaging in   Opportunity you're engaging in the next experience  with that person might have been waiting for that   sentence to land in their brain because they've  been looking for you in their world they've been   waiting to hear oh and I need a music producer  well actually I need a screenplay writer is that   what you do tell me more if we're reserved about  what we do we're missing opportunities and I think   Americans are so much better and it kind of shows  why they're entertainment industry is so big and   so huge because they live within that culture  of hey this is who I am this is what I've done   yeah speak on that and let's connect and it  was it's great to hear you say and that's   what you do now as well yeah you talk it up  you don't let someone's impression be what   they think you could be it's this is what  I do and I'm working on this great thing   what I do is great yeah you have to um there  are there were certain spaces that I've been   off late where I've had to I knew I would for  example I knew I'm going into it I'm in the   I'm about to I'm in an unknown space in my life at  the moment where everything is going to be checked   it's inevitable yeah I remember speaking to my  mentor and just said ah listen I said I don't know   what's happening but I don't think I've got any  choice on what happens to my life at this point   as I can just feel it's going to change and  different things were happening over the last   couple of weeks and the way I was navigating  through these situations I realized I had to   manage how emotionally connected I was to those  situations like say something was bad how angry   how long was I going to remain in a in a funk was  that actually you know what that just let it go   so like moving into the space now it's really  important like bro it's so important that   um that you just know why like you know you said  to you saying oh when there was some music you   wrote and he was like how do you how did I how was  I creating that and I said happy space and I said   I said happy space and use that you was like no it  was a dark time do you remember what I said about   that that dark space how we negate that that space  so how we Channel ourselves do you understand what   I'm trying to say bro the I'm sorry say that again  reload that right your dark space is your happy   time because of how you're choosing to be in that  dark space yeah you have to negate in that space   there it's like your attitude people people  use like attitude of gratitude and stuff like   that you know and and I'm throwing it away because  sometimes when you listen to this think about when   we do these things we we say sometimes we say such  profound things but actually because we have not   learned our first part which is to appreciate what  we have you know this is outside of anyone telling   us yeah you know like sometimes when one time I  made a beans on toast yeah brother the beans and   toast tastes so cold to me and I'm sat there and  I'm going bro these beans on toes up amazing right   now in that moment I'm appreciating the  simple simple thing I've got but this is   what I've got I've got free pan in my pocket  I've made this work the cheese everything's   working and I'm grateful yeah I know that's we're  creative so you understand where we go with this   bringing it back into what I mean by this dark  space is that in that time in those places where   you don't know what is going on or someone  is in someone has said an energy or someone   has made you feel a certain way or you've made  yourself feel a certain way in that space your   life is now changing you have to in that space  figure out where is the joy where's the beauty   in there okay if it's if it's immense pain what am  I doing with that immense pain yeah what is it and   you create from that space and as you come out of  it my brother as you come out of that space yeah   you don't even know how far  you've grown you don't even know   like you say you listening to them that  music then you're like brah I need to do that   um I need to do that years later so it's  that thing you were doing then because it's   a juxtaposition that that's a juxtaposition of  our of a really traumatic time because whereas   as artists we're taught yo when I'm in my pain  I wonder if I wanna I need to create from Pain   however it was a juxtaposition you've got your  pain but then you've got your passion yeah your   your right your gift and your gift with the pain  and all different what's going on your your gift   just was like okay yo we're gonna just we're  gonna just create this thing here James yeah   he's saying you're right bro we're just gonna  just do what we're doing here you know I'm gonna   get back out of it and you'll laugh and there's  things subside you're gonna continue with your   life but you know what bro you're going to have a  marker you're gonna you're gonna have a definite   Mark of something that's personal to you but it's  what is essentially the closest to your best work   did you get it yeah yeah is that  is that investment in yourself   that will keep you running in those years that  helps you to top up because as the art game is   we can talk about it not being fruitful it  being fruitful it being for this you know the game is supposed to be it's supposed to be  fluid it's supposed to have these Ebbs and flows   it's supposed to test you because you're actually  testing yourself you're saying to the world   when you wake up I'm going to be up for me I'm  going to write a play and this play is going to   be seen by a hundred thousand people who are  you of course I'm I'm Courtney in my flat and   I am going to write this play maybe three to four  hours a day around everything else I've got to do   in comparison to her well other screenplay writers  they do it every single day in the mountains free   on you well I've got to go to work I've got  to go link my pleasure in I might even go for   a rave but when inspiration catches me I'm going  to write yeah but my play is going to get there   barbecue this is how mad that sounds yet it's to  believe my brother you have to recognize your you   have to remember your you have to remember what  you're you have to remember your power man yeah   and it's going to be overlooked I always knew when  I moved up here I was going to be overlooked in   my craft because I was there were certain things  in my body I hadn't learned I hadn't like I was   London understood the money game yeah then  I moved up here wasn't interested was it was   my focus was more people as you guys are born  here your life is evolving differently you've   grown up from school you this is your this is  your home so you're thinking about different   things go listen I need to get a job on this on  at this level at this stage and so forth we all   are at different stages but one thing for sure  what your art does and I come back to your art   is it is your truth and if you're brave enough  and you want it enough you know it will stick   with you even when you fall out of love with  it art just remains yeah it just sticks yeah   it does it just sticks with you and you can  tap into it and tap out but if you really want   it then you have to go you have to build it as a  relationship like you would with anyone else I'm   going to argue with you I'm going to talk to you  I'm going to I'm going to introduce you to people   please don't be rude yeah you know we're going  to fail we're gonna fail and we're gonna have   triumphant moments but those triumphant moments  might actually only happen in our headphones yeah   how'd you feel about it well you think that's  in it we've got to go that's the thing I think   I've had conversations recently I don't think  I can ever stop this thing it's never stopping   and is those sometimes it is oh I made a song  today and I'm I'm walking down the street and   I'm listening to it it didn't exist this  morning that's a win that's a win because it's even about us sometimes like I said it's  coming from elsewhere and we need to get out of   our own way and channel listing and turn it into  something we can observe listen to see through   our senses our limited senses and go oh that  was interesting and whether five billion people   listening to it or just you it exists and that's  what it's about and that's a really big battle as   an artist I think is we live in a numbers Society  now everything's likes you know likes and love what if you never got anyone liking any or  uh ever again you're gonna stop doing it   I think I tried to at one stage  yeah hey I'm buttoning questions yeah yeah so yeah it is something we can't escape  and I think a thread what we're trying to see   through this is you know through the darkest times  it's a weird thing being a creative and there   might be people who aren't creatives listening  being a career if is synonymous with mental health   the art and the creativity can  make your mental health suffer   but whilst you're going through an episode of  like life is affecting your mental health it can   also be the thing that saves your mental health  that's if I was to summarize being an artist for   me that's what it is like when life is hitting  you hard this thing here Gets You Through It but   sometimes this thing here can be the thing that's  making life feel hard because especially again the   sacrifice mid twin is people are now in successful  jobs big wages big houses big cars married 2.4   children and you're here the artists like yo bro  what's my next screenplay in your gas and that's   a that's a thing that is a struggle that a lot  of people don't talk about but the people like I   said that have stayed dedicated throughout these  years that we've known each other I just look at   people like bro I love to Ste still see you doing  your thing like you know steering we could name   everyone from our Circle there's so many and  I want to start bringing people to as we're   talking now I'm like who could I bring into this  conversation with us too that I know is is gonna   just be another great experience for the people  that are tapping in and listening here because   we're building a nice community of people  that want to grow and they want to learn   from people's stories and experiences and we've  all got something to speak about we've all been   through like you said individual things that when  you start bringing conversations together there's   power in our stories and you don't necessarily  always have to be a celebrity you know with that   big 10 million Instagram following to be able  to impact on someone's life conversation and   words are powerful you'll know that being a writer  like someone who studies Words Words of Power so   I can feel how great this conversation you know  is and people how people are going to receive it   if you could summarize this is a  not an easy question I don't think   what's been one of your biggest life lessons okay one of my biggest life lessons was to  remember the power of my voice and how to use it um what I mean by that is for me to make certain  steps and changes in my life   I had to and I would go to people that I wanted  to speak to about those changes there was another   requirement that I didn't realize and ending that  knowledge at the time and it was going you need to   be the reason you've chosen that person is because  you see that these are their values this is their   value system that you see in them whether they're  No Nonsense whether they're straight to the point   whether they're good listeners they're  deep thinkers you know whether they take   on your gibberish but they ingest it whilst you're  thinking that you've walked off and then you know   so when I understood that understanding the  power of my voice and my thoughts is the been   the most impactful phase in my life because it's  helped me to channel the way that I my thoughts   my insecure is it's helped me to be more specific  and value of my own time and of people's time it's   helped me to really start to see map out paths and  actually see what my habits are and that as a gift   is a testament to the way that I  was born from being born to now   and all of those confusions because if you forget  if you don't feel you know your voice and you're   scared to be truthful you know you know and say  how you feel then you're wasting time you really   are you're wasting time because what happens is  you will always know you've heard that saying you   know like when you say and you're outside in the  world you're like yeah man everything's cool man   everything's cool corn and you shut your door and  you everyone has experienced that door the moment   you shut your door and that silence thing is like  it's just you and me you know that feeling so you   know it can happen for a second but you know  you've done all the hey hey and then the door   shuts and it's just uh oh is it us yeah yeah so  I have now learned to be more more focused more   real with when I speak with people and that  means that's not through just need that's like   if someone speaks to me like when we first when  we were speaking about your music video it was   yes bro whatever you need it doesn't matter to  me I just you're my guy I love you like there's   no heirs and Graces for me it's just like yes  yes yes yes yes yes yes yes and let's get so   now I want to know how you feel you know and so I  can help you navigate how you're you know because   you're such a respectful man so you'll be like I  just want to value your time yeah both we need to   chop this up for 10 hours and it needs to go over  a course of a week that's all we need to say we're   doing and I've got y'all and it's that power of  our voice is the thing that I've I think if more   people do it you know and you'd get more a  happier ecosystem in the world yeah I know   also just last thing sorry is creatives we're  all creatives you know I have friends that are   like doctors and have friends that have opened  coffee houses and I have friends that smash it   on paperwork you know like that documents you're  an artist because your brain is wired and geared   to figure to figure that thing out it's that's  your music yeah if you're a cleaner and you   have an ability to go and look at a big gigantic  office space and go yeah I'll do that in an hour   and you're whistling away and people are  looking at you and you you can pick up the   rubbish and all of those things that people  you know um turn their nose up but you don't   see it as that you see it as no I'm actually  I'm contributing to creating a cleaning space   yeah and by being clean means that you guys stay  healthy which means that your home lives continue   that means everything your ecosystems work to get  what I'm trying to say so we're all creatives it's   just understanding our creativity and being proud  of it a lot more and actually understanding and   being honest about whether your creativity is  about the win that the glitz and glamor or if   you want to start enjoying it from now and let all  of those raw feelings like oh I just want more to   happen now it's up to you so yeah understanding  your voice externally and internally yeah yeah   truth is the foundation to everything I  think as as we go you know we grow older   and and you get to know yourself more and more  life experiences and you're more sure of yourself   you operate from Australian place as  young men it's like let me go gym and   see how big I can get and there's a lot  of bravado or amongst your friends and   you might be thinking about girls and going  out and getting drunk it's pretty much our life   when we're young as you get older you realize  it's friendships and realness to me is tied in   what type of conversation can I have with you as a  person if I come to you have a problem How Deeply   are you going to be able to help me and vice  versa it's more those real connected things that   we appreciate and as you grow I definitely find  myself speaking in more truth sometimes as well   you might finish a sentence and you go wow  is that me did I really just flow like that   and it's taking that moment and going oh  that's the true version of me and the world   when you when you then reinforce that with  you know I need to do more of that I need to   speak more of the truth start to realize your  life shifts and more positive things come in   and I think that's why we've known probably  this conversation was going to happen we   probably weren't aware years ago but we we knew  we're going to connect and I'm glad we've been   able to do this because you're someone that I  look to and if I see someone new like you still   doing it I'm still gonna do it do you know what  I mean if I see if I was like if I if I bumped   into you in the street I was like yes bro you  do anything ah just stuck to all you know I'd   be like [ __ ] is it that time of life then  is it does that mean I'm gonna stop it soon   so I look at you like as a creative Beacon I  really respect what you do and what you're about   what are your future plans where do you see  life going from now what are you trying to   manifest yeah this is a nice question so um  um right now I've been my future focus is   um I've got I'm building a universe at the moment  um a project that's been well essentially I   believe is my my best work it will be my it's my  life's work in fact yeah I know it's my last work   um and that will basically that will  open up all my possibilities in my life   um because it's gonna be it's informed by  everything that I've ever wanted from a child   family positive bonds with my friends upkeep  of my brotherhood being a being a stand-up guy   being a a guy that can provide you know  provide and I mean providing sternly but   also providing for myself my spirituality it's  everything it's just my whole world and I've   been working on it for such a long time but  it's now at a space where I'm going to start   sharing it out there now I'm smiling because even  your smile yeah well it is it's just because I've   been I you know because I've been working  on it for a while and I've done a number   of different things that are out in the IFA  and if at some point you'll see it you go oh   my gosh it was all connected but it's I've  kept it as a very private space for me yeah   um and there are the right voices and ears are  around it now and it's it has to be this way so   um my future for my my future prospects are I'm  going to be I'm still going to be making my films   I'm going to push forever in my directing I'm  still mentoring teaching will never ever leave me   it would just never leave me yeah you don't teach  you don't the things that you would do for free   you know you don't even believe you are  you know so that will always be there   I'm looking forward to connecting with more  and more creatives and more and more people   um that are at their space of wanting to make  a leap but understanding what that leap is   um I'm looking forward to just really building  some of these new wants in my mind that have   started to manifest you know like I said I started  thinking more about family structures and stuff   and I started thinking a lot about what this  survival thing this survival living I've been   doing for such a long time um sometimes everyone  I've wanted to break down that Convention of when   people see me they're like our course is always  good in one sense I am yes I am I'm very blessed   but I also struggle like everyone else  I just haven't forgotten that everyone   I just haven't forgotten how life you  know how people you know to be grateful   for other people's lives so yeah my life is  going to be moving creatively down a very   um strong path and it will cross over into many  different mediums and stuff and yeah I love to   hear it man and bro you're you're one of Life's  Good Guys man trust me people who are listening   please go back and listen to this again because  I swear on the second list and third you will   hear gems that you might have missed first time  around I'll be going to edit this and then I'll be   listening again so I'm looking forward to hearing  what I've missed whilst we're in the flow because   on that second process that third process  you're someone who I know who has a lot of wealth of knowledge but the way you deliver  that in words because of your art form and   the things you've studied you're just someone  who I I respect and admire with your craft and   I wish you all the best bro this is not me saying  goodbye we're gonna do this I said to Connie like   I said sort of a guest I just want to get people  in a conversation back on get listeners familiar   with this great community that we've known for  a long time and even you know new people coming   through and connect's not just creators but you  know people like Maureen on the show who is a   emotional therapist that shines lights on things  that make sense that we've probably suffered with   as creatives for 20 years and it's starting to  work this whole new circuit and we've got lessons   on the other end of it which is a beautiful thing  but bro I wish you all the best Monday I really   do and I'm excited for your next journey and  if you ever see Courtney's name on a show or   go and see this guy just if he's created a show  or he's performing and you're in Manchester or   wherever that that show is take time to do  it because you'll come away from it like wow   I've just learned something but I appreciate  you coming bro today and we'll do this again   and for everyone listening where can people  find you yeah so um um the best thing to do   is to connect with me on Instagram you know  it's just it's a nice comfortable space   um it's a good it's a good space right now so  you can connect let me there at Courtz Writes   um and yeah you want to reach out just message  me you know the social media world is Bonkers   but you know you're talking to a real person  behind it so you send a message you'll get a   message back and we'll just chat yeah man if  you ever need me bro you know where I am you   can like we've always supported each other in  that way you've always dropped super kind words   when they're needed and I'm seeing that straight  back to you if you ever need me in life anything   creative hit me up the same way and I've got you  like you've always had me appreciate that if you   want to support the podcast you can find the links  in the description it's a labor of love we're not   doing it for you know monetary game but if you  want to show some love and support you can do that   the biggest thing you can do is pass this on to  someone who might benefit from this conversation   with Courtney and thanks again for listening  thanks to Courtney I can't wait to go back and   listen to this one bro so appreciate you remember  no matter what you're going through no matter   how hard life gets life is good life is sound  stay blessed and we'll see you on the next one