010 | Real Life Drama w/ Courtney Hayles

hello good people and welcome back to life is sound today we've got a treat for you this is a  guy I've known for I couldn't even currently use to be fair but it's been a while and every time  we've connected in life he's someone I'm just like he really like that positive is that really him  and then over the years as I've known this guy I realized that the energy that he carries is  so pure and I leave every interaction like so we'll just give me a little nugget of energy and  I've just walked away like ah it's actually real positive people that have like a profound effect  on your life and your interactions so I've always appreciated that with this brother and today we've  got Courtney Hayles on and I'll let him introduce himself as I let every guest introduce themselves  but we've known each other now I'd say 18 around 18 years which is mad to say and we've connected  over the years I asked him to come on the podcast today and we're going to chop it up we're going  to talk about Courtney's Journey as a creative and what he does so Coutney if you want to see  hello to the listeners and what you're about and we'll get into it yeah how you doing everyone my  name is Courtney Wilson in this course rights and then yeah um I'm a multi-disciplinary artist I've  been in the city for a long time and it's been a blessed Journey um but for those of you that have  come into contact with me a lot of my thoughts my words my ideas they all start from the pen  and then from there I can I just disseminate that within my circles and let those ripples  just constantly keep going out and out and out and out and just the sharing has to start from  that first initial thought so yeah I'm here how you doing my brother I'm good you know I'm good  I'm not when you said yeah I'm gonna come and do the podcast you start thinking about the timeline  of well how long have I known this guy a memory so my first full memory of like interacting with  you and leaving like yo he's proper safe you know he's a sound guy was I think we're in town like it  would have been a club night somewhere our Circles of circles are like just so many Circles of people  that know each other and we've all interlinked over the years and I remember like we were all  just chatting saying hello and I remember just leaving like yo that guy's probably cool man he's  a nice guy and then over the years but one of the things I remember I was like well he's not from  Manchester where is he from so the interest Sparks because when you hear a different accent in your  city but you're so familiar with my friends I'm like who is this guy man how do my friends know  this guy like why is he here in Manchester so what what's your background bro like because you've  been here for a while so what was your journey of uh getting to Manchester and you know being in the  city here yeah so um so I moved up here in 2000 and 2019 yeah um originally it was just um to come  up for University study contemporary theater and performance Manchester night and then essentially  it was just to just the first time was I thought I was just going to do three years bang later  straight back yeah but what ended up happening is I remember this isn't the start of my journey  I remember going down Market Street and I was online at my two suitcases like back in the day  yeah we used to actually carry two suitcases yeah and I'm walking and I'm just looking around and I  remember this moment I remember seeing I stopped on Market Street and um hold that Rio I seen him  there he was he handed me a CD and I was like no problem cool but then me and him Circle back and  grab the CD from him and then we just from there we we're just we're brothers are left that's mud  yeah that's the treadmill so but there was a moment that stood out to me and the moment was  I started seeing different pockets of people hanging out and I was and  I realized that I was one person and I'm going right look at those man them hanging together then I started looking at the buildings I started looking at the graffiti and I  started looking at the artists on the streets the buskers I started looking at people in the cars  the music was sounding I've gone you know what I want all of that so I went to um a Photoshop and  bought one of those little handheld cameras here we didn't have the mobile too tough and I started  taking pictures of people and things so I took a picture of a group of guys I was like yeah I said  one day I'm gonna have some friends like that took fresh just loads of different inspiration  went past all the fears all the spaces and started taking all these pictures and that was me going  okay so I'm actually I'm in Manchester so once I started  um once I was embedded in the city I like you know basically I started working from the jump  studying was my university life wasn't as conventional as a most students it was part work  and part networking which I didn't understand I was networking in the beginning  my thing was I need to meet people the fact that I've been able to leave London  and come to Manchester I already knew that that was my Edge so I used to meet people really  quickly hence our interactions would have been bubbly yeah yeah because I was just I realized  it very quickly that I have an opportunity to choose people to be my family for life  that was something I had it became when you're on when you work from survival mode you start  to think about what that looks like yeah so when I met people and they were like I'll  show you around let me take you around let me let me show you my friends or let me show  you that see I'm looking at them I'm not I'm saying yes but I'm also looking at them going  okay please please please dislike each other yeah because the fact that you're doing this for me  is I'm gonna I'm gonna remember this because I remember those acts of kindness that is a  free thing it's nothing to cost nothing you know and I already know my worth at this time  so fast track the city graduated 2005. um started getting very heavily involved in  Creative Industries deep in education I mean I think within my second year of University  whatever I was learning in there I was teaching kids on the street yeah that's a fact you know and  um I was just sharing as much as I can I was always writing whatever you need here take it I  don't know what do we do with it once I graduated I got very got busy in them creative Industries  still doing the education but there were so many youngers under me that were just now I you know  I saw it very very clearly that I can give you an opportunity that I didn't have and I'm okay  to give it to you freely but I don't know what I didn't know is that I met the the Helm of those  choices yeah so all those youngers that are coming under they're looking at you and you're going  yeah this is what you need to do but what I was giving him was what my dreams felt like you know  feeding them feeding them feeding them and I met I started meeting so many people you know so  many people it's like my mum sometimes says to me she says you know your life's like a movie in it she's like you need to stop and think about what where you started to where you are now  to who you know to what you've done in this city and the fact that you still smile regardless but  we're gonna get into that part anyway this is what I wanted to ask you like  where this comes from because as I said when we were met I would have been Young  maybe 18 and growing up where I've grown up you come with a certain mindset you know you've been  you've been around certain people we've all come up a certain way life was a bit Aggie about that  and everyone was a bit you know garage days and you know Good Vibes but bad vibes in the clubs as  well that kind of ended as we got to around 18 but the mindset of being you know younger from 15 16.  when I bumped into someone like yourself and you were just pure positivity my mindset then  was like he can't be that positive and I remember it took a few interactions with you for me to go  nah that guy is genuine rather people like that are that genuine it's not a friend oh [ __ ] so  you really shifted my mindset like in life of just seeing someone who is a high vibrational person as  I've got older and my mindset shifted you know life's happened and I see the world completely  different my vibrations come up and then we've linked on that level then I've started to realize  every time we've linked the energy I get from you and the connection that we have I'm just like yo  corny is just a good guy man like a positive Guy where you interact with people whether it's in a  creative way or I might say yo bro I know we not spoke for a while but I'm going through this the  words you give to people in that moment even though we might not seen each of five years or  we might just crossed paths in the street like yo bro it's saying you're good the words you've  given me in those moments have always been quite parallel like powerful and I've reflected like  call is a good dude you know so where where does that come from bro what's the journey  that's that's got you there has it been nurtured from family has it been instilled  you know from Generations before you what's made you carry that energy through life and  like you said you know you were already there at 19 coming to Manchester or even earlier  saying what does my life so you had that maturity you did trying to design your life at that age  where where does that come from yeah so it comes from an um a couple of couple of spaces and I can  I can touch on them really well with you brother so I can go I'm from I've got a beautiful family  structure it you know like all families things are Peak things you know what I will say is  um from a very young age there were some very raw truths that were shown to me all based on making  sure that I would grow and mature into the man I am from a very young age and it was underpinned so  because of that I had a I was allowed to be a kid yeah but I had an under my family had to ensure  that I had a grip on the world that you're a young man being raised by all of these women  and you've got a couple of discourses in your life that are gonna shift and cause you some pain and  as the women raising the masculine man we're going to come into Conflict at some point and  not understand how to comprehend how to get your mind in that space so I'm I'm bodied with with  um with empathy can you hear that yeah the feminine side but in the masculine  are bodied by empathy bro like females in my life have been the the strength I've learned a  lot from my dad but I didn't grow yeah and the impact of seeing strong females in my family  you do realize you do carry that feminine energy and you do miss that that masculine side and  even though my dad has served me with you know real life truths and that came from my Grandad  which have probably been passed on from his dad and they've really shaped my masculine side but  there's a power when you're raised by strong women in the family yeah I agree I agree I  agree I agree I I also say is that um you eat I enjoyed being raised by all those women you  know but I also enjoyed the conflict of trying to figure out who I was and that comes from the  different discourses in my family you know great best and birth like doing so much truths there's  another person I'm gonna touch on my grandma she was like the Helm of the family that was it  you know we're talking Sunday dinner and everyone's there yeah yeah people that don't  go Church were like yeah I've got to go to church you know so I got a chance to visit my grandma's  house on top of that I am a product of being raised by my grandma in the 80s yeah I'm talking  cleaning jobs in the city in the city center London age four with the the Henry Hoover yeah  my sister running to jump on a bus we're talking cracker Dawn Behavior a bunch of keys on my side  she happened to trust us she's going in that office block to clean and me and my sister are  going in that one and we're having to and it was just having to tell me treat it like a game and  my sister's if I'm four my sisters what six yeah she's like listen you gotta go up these lifts just  get those bags and bring them down I'm like yeah so in those way in those spaces and then when we  would do all of those jobs and calm down and we'd see how my grandma was treated and she'd tell us  like you see this money what we're making this is what this does and this is why you're doing  it yeah and then when we would eat together she said you see how you eat instead of food to feel  good for you and I'm like yeah she go because you work for it yeah so we're starting to see on my  mind's starting to understand value of things from the smallest space yeah yeah moving forward just  in London random just in general in general things move quick you age quicker um just because there's  just so much going on I didn't realize there were things that I was doing yeah sorry mum yeah but really when I look at it now that's what that was that mindset of like an 18 year old 19 year  old but it was normalized what was good is that along my path I think my path is being ordered  because just one of the points when I wanted to sort of Veer off I had friends they were like now  of course that's not your path mate yeah that's not for you you're supposed to be the one that  holds us down you're the ones you're the ones but when we see you we're supposed to see you go into  school that's what we want to see we want to see you going to school and coming back we want to  hear that you've been grounded today like what does that feel like do you know so all of those  blessings and all of those sort of sort of limitations and lessons and stuff sort of  helped me to form and shape an appreciation for my life and I have really I know loads of people but  I understand the importance of an incubated Circle yeah yeah yeah but that incubated Circle doesn't  mean that you're shut off from the world it just means that there's been such a heavy investment in  understanding what it means to be a good person or to love your friend love your boy love your girl  argue with them whatever it is be there really be there like if you say oh I was thinking about  this idea and for as that good friend remembering coming back to them two weeks three weeks a year  later you go yo listen you remember the idea you're saying I've come out with this not just  before maybe with something you've written in that incubated Circle as long as that was strong and  that was it was we always I was always feeding it nurturing that space what ends up happening is my  perception and perspective of the world was always in that space so whenever I met people it was  always from love first yeah yeah you know listen we can get busy but it was always loved first I'm  like I'm seeing you because I'm going maybe we can build something together yeah and that's something  doesn't always as you know as you get older it's not always about work that's something could just  be brave can you just be of someone that I know that you I can call on or you can call on me  and that's where when I've come up here into Manchester it's just a it's a chance I literally  put my hand on the map and when Hotel education I was like that doesn't look far yeah yeah and I  ended up here and I was told my mama was going up the road and she's like all right cool his  name is in Manchester yeah so now I was here it was a case of me just meeting anyone and everyone  and having a good time and just trying to get to know him and and also being please invite  me into your friendship circles but telling them as well like yeah I really want to know you yeah  yeah yeah which who who even says that that's a rare thing right that will throw people off like  I want to get to know you like it's not in our natural thing where people our culture  like British culture is very like what what we want to get to why what do you want from me like  that's how we're kind of we're very standoffish in a way in it and our our people are our people but  the process that you said about you know coming up here and the energy that you've given out  I've seen you do that through the years and it continue and we've always said we know we're  gonna connect on something at some point and we try to think you know when was it last year or  the year before and the project didn't fully like resolve but I realize these connections  we've always known something we're going to do something at some point so when I've shouted you  you know come and do this podcast straight away yo bro it's perfect time I'm ready and  when you've got people like that that you can show and they're just down for a conversation or to do  something creative that thing might not lead to the big thing you think but you never know what  it will transition to the next creative thing in a year or two or three years or five years ten years  just when you keep those connections with people you never know how they're going to transpire  whether that project resolves and it's complete and it's released to the world or it lasted  a week and it didn't fully reach its creative potential but I noticed when we have connected  you know the projects I did ask you to get involved in but you were so committed  and there was no Courtney I'm gonna pay you this bro it's at the moment there's nothing I  can really you know financially give to you and you're like bro say no more I'm on it  I've realized that my perception of you is you're a true artist like you you're  you know you're a writer you've you're involved in you know the drama side of of Life there you know  in that world which from my life as a musician it's a weird thing like we all do the same thing  but it's very different so I can stand and admire someone else's craft and be like what what must  it be like to be in that world because you know it's like I know what writing's like I know what  creating a stories like putting it together putting that out into the  world I know what performance like but it's a different thing so what is your process like  when you approach somebody else's project or even talk about your own projects as well because  you you do a lot you're somebody who has never stopped being creative and to make  a living out of being creative is not easy so like what what's your process would you say  I say my first part of my process um this is how Jesus my grandma's line listen more slowly  and with that by listening more slowly when you're whenever I approach a project whether  it's my personal projects or whether someone asks me it's the point where I have to take in  what is being said and then by allowing that allowing the idea to marinate and it's often  sporadic as you know when you've got an idea like oh brother I've got this thing I want to kind of  do yeah it's going to kind of work you know and then yeah it's going to do this you know  just tell me what the project is and tell me what you want that's where I start from  do what do you want also is what do I want and where do I sit within those ideas then because  within that I I what do I want what do you want there's also can you do it Courtney like do you  want to do it yeah to see all hearing all the ones can you do it Courtney do you want to do it  how much do you want to do it yeah and each time I'm clearing all of this up in like seconds  because the natural thing for me as an artist is yeah I want to just be creative  because we're taught nowadays that to be seen as to be an artist is to be busy doing random  stuff but ultimately if you keep doing lots of random projects that are all they could be  beautiful projects but if it's not along your your branch you will lose yourself  you do not you end up creating work but you create nothing for yourself yeah and you can  be part of people's projects and this is where I'm linking up the line when when you approach  me with one of your projects yeah you can you can do a project for someone with someone  and not have not bat an eyelid and worry about yo what about what where do I sit in it  if you if you know it's for you and if it's for that and you're doing it for the right reasons  that is the contribution to your own Ripple do you get what I'm trying to say so for me when  I create something when I create work or I'm approached to do work it's straight away about  the Synergy between myself and that project can I connect with it and am I gonna and am I gonna  give my very best yeah nine times out ten is the street yeah of course I am because I love  the person anyway to get what I mean yeah when I create my personal work oh that's the journey  because the vision of it has been existing immune for Moon many moons yeah so I've got my last time  my lifetime now so you know listeners I know you're feeling this but I've got my lifetime now  yeah my lifespan and my experience is that I can comprehend but then prior to that my subconscious  mind they're a thing when I have ideas they have come I don't even know where they come from so  that must be another life that's something else I've stepped into yeah so when it comes to my own  work the conflict the war that I go through to decide that I'm going to do this piece of work  he goes on his own Journey but I do a lot of that process in my head this is my part this is my  artistic practice actually so I will write a whole play top to bottom 100 Pages 200 Pages whatever  it is top to bottom in my head I'll probably do in a couple of days so yeah and then the pro and  then putting pen to paper once I've done I've written the first page out I know how long the  rest is going to take me yeah so once I'm now in that creative space in terms of creating my work  there's always a conversation I have with all my eyes it's listen what you know is what you know  but what I'm about to offer you is a different perspective where we can do this like ethically  together meaning I've got a very clear Vision however if you see something different please  share it yeah and if it tops trumps my my vision we're coming in with it and a new lead you lead  so I have no I have no heirs and Graces about oh I'm the director or I'm the I'm the lead this  person because everything's a tone Key System do you know everything's a turnkey system you know  it's like you create music but then boom an artist might come in this the artist's term to step up to  go in the booth and do what the what the artist does once the artist is done and now oh listen  I need to go back to the engineer see you mate Engineers times it's your time and if we could  just remember that as creatives then actually the way the ways that we type we create work and the  ways and the p and the ways that we create and we interact with people's art it means it wouldn't be  transitory because we know what that feels like and this is where we say I'm just I'm touching  on that line about why it's struck it's hard to be an artist is because it actually is hard to  the first moment when you tell someone about your idea we've all been there you're telling someone  that you think that you admire or you respect or you think would understand and you see it in their  eyes they're just they're listening to you but they're not there but your mouth is moving your  mouth is moving now because you're aware that's the first time that you're speaking your idea out  and you don't always speak it in the way you've been envisioning it for the last two years  or however long and then when you finish that conversation you go why did I say that way because  that's so someone can never full that Vision you've got in your mind those words that are  you can never create it a hundred percent the way you see it I've I'm I'm a musician I'm a producer  I'm a writer I've done it for more than half my life I remember being at my friend's house  uh I'd had a smoke I was high I was at his back door my friends were in his living room yeah I'm  at the back door and I'm looking up to the sky bro I heard a whole classical music composition  in my head I don't know how to get that out of my head because I can't write music I can't go and  you know put that on paper in music notation and give it to an orchestra and go hey this instrument  was doing this it was so complex I actually sat there and I think I shared a tear because I was  like I heard it clear as day bro but I can never get that out of my head into the form of what I  heard ever because I don't have the full skill set to do that but I have the creative mind to hear it  if I was to tell someone oh I heard this I heard the violin do this and then there was a cello  doing this and there was a big Crescendo that went here and there must have been about 18 instruments  the person I'm telling that to is not receiving that thing that I heard and that's the hardest  part about being a creative and an artist is having the vision the idea whether you try and  do it all yourself if you're if you need help with that idea to make it you know as close to  that thing that you think you can get it because I believe we can only ever get close we can never  fully get there because when you see something on film or you hear something in a song you might  love it how close was it to that original idea it might be 98 it might be 80. but I don't think we  can ever get 100 and that's why we struggle to let things go because there's something ever finished  but I think that's such a good point like to say you know when you choose to open that up  to somebody it's a really difficult thing to do and this is why I see you as a true  creator of an artist because you don't get involved in projects like where you  like is this going to make me look cooler how much credit am I going to get for this thing  how do I come across in this thing when this thing's finished do I look like a sick guy  I don't see you as someone approaching out like that I see you someone is like  how good can this thing be and I think that's a beautiful thing that you just said it took  me back to being in the studio or you know with my friends when we were younger and  someone's got this melody or this chorus you've been writing that chorus for a week  at home you're coming into the studio yo boys I've got this fire chorus he shows someone and  they might go sick amazing boom put it down you might show someone they go yes it's all right  you think it's the best thing ever when you get that lay it down you're like sit they love it  then the toughest part is a creative is is the battle with ego when you're creating in a  environment with other people you might have this chorus which was sounds incredible super catchy  someone might come in and go oh you see that line there I was thinking that could be that  you might not agree with that because you've had this set in stone for weeks for months for years  that's the hardest part I think of collaborating as a creative is stepping back and going you know  his melody or her Melody is actually stronger and what you said there I think is a real life lesson  for creatives like you said you're not like I'm the director I'm doing this I get the final say  it's who's bringing the strongest idea and are we all in agreeance that this thing here might be a  little bit stronger than this here okay I've got to get on my own way and my own ego and realize  it's for the great good of the art and that's how I perceive you as someone who approaches  approaches creativity as like for the greater good of this thing that none of us know where  these ideas come from like you said you'd be in this in the shower and you thinking I've got to  do this today banging ideas comes into yet from nowhere you weren't even thinking about this idea  but it's just like someone just went there's an idea now your mind's a thousand miles an hour and  you don't even want to think about today's work I need to get this thing out of me and it's such a  strange thing that we all experience in different ways but you really to me are someone who  approaches art for the greater good of art whether it's your uh other people's art and that's another  thing that resonated you said you know the battle with yourself when it's your personal stuff and I  can relate to that when I make my personal music my artist music that's a real battle  man when you're taking real life experiences and putting them into a creative form battling  with what should this sound like am I saying the right thing how am I being perceived as an  artist is this too real am I sharing too much of myself do I want people to see this vulnerability  that's a really push and pull battle that I think we all have like I've been in a band  with my friends I didn't really have that push and pull as much because you got other people  around you like no bro trust me this is right actually I think this is wrong yeah we might  not be heading down the right path there when you're on your own and you're doing it and I  know you're someone that writes a lot on your own you know similar to me I think you spend a lot of  time creating creatively on your own as well as collaborating that push and pulleys vet is very  real and what would you say like the real life dramas you've experienced in life you know the  things that are just not related to why it's just the things you've experienced just going through  life we all experience these tough moments that we just don't get a choice about we can  be going through life and everything's sweet and you might get blindsided by one of the  biggest things that's happened to you in your life however you transitioned those things and push them through into your art like what would you say some of the biggest things  that you've been through if you don't mind talking about and how that's ended up in  your creative flow yeah so there's a couple that will just jumping that into my mind  so obviously you've had the softer side of like me moving to Manchester from London making that decision to move to Manchester was there was one part where it was quite a flippant  choice and the immature Choice Young Star but then there was also a a focus I've got two brothers  and life was moving differently down in London you know I weren't a bad boy I was in the mix you  know when I I tried to be in a bit because I like to say I like to say I tried to be in the mix but  I had a lot of responsibility to my friends and there was just a couple of Secrets of events that  just kept happening and it was random because I kept looking at my brothers and I remember just  going no I'm gonna move and I'm gonna and I knew the sacrifice because what was going to happen is  I was going to build a life up here which means my journey with my brothers was going to stop  they're little and the only guarantee I could have was if I bust through up here then I could go you  can come and you can do any any whatever you want to do on Manchester whatever you need you can  do it and this is why that was a massive burden on my soul because of the same breath of that I  ended up you know working with some beautiful people um shock out the big dance provision now  a university but in the inertia of it it was like four students four students in Liverpool  now what I'm trying to say where they're the connection to my brother is my brothers are  and my family is I'm training and working with young kids the same age as my brothers  and my nephews or my cousins ones that I love and I'm pouring love into these little ones  you know and we're talking from the age of four up and now those my in my lifespan they're all adults  who know me like courts you've been in my life for 15 years 18 years and then I look at my brothers  who are just so beautiful and they're big and I've got little disconnects with them because of the  time so that was a massive one a massive like a massive burden of my a massive sacrifice that's  you know it enforces my art all the time but just me as a human those challenges to keep going  um I like to always I want to mention this one um I remember when I am I lost my house like properly  lost my house done and my whole relationship broke down all at the same time and I was like homeless  for like 18 months you know and I'll say on the negative side it was the most traumatic thing ever  I mean imagine this like Bravada putting your hand in your litter box to get your letters um signing on at the gym it's just so you can shower gotta keep clean you know what I mean to hear the  negative and positive so I was training but I was like no way this homeless situation is not  defeating me in this way but I've got to figure this one out you know working in a sandwich shop  and haven't been told every morning gotta make like 800 baguettes like  before like nine o'clock yeah that's something with like some anything bread now yeah you know  and then that reminded of me of my childhood it's like learning how to be a self-sufficient  man you know knowing how to cook for yourself and working from nothing so these are the other  positive spins and the net you know how this is how I navigated these such these circumstances  but during those times and I've thrown those two in um I remember that I thought the world was that  was it I was like this is rock rock bottom this is it I I failed completely and then I remember  um watching them Pursuit for happiness like just randomly just just put it on the TV just sat there  telling myself I need to watch it so these times what's that 2012 2012 2011 2012 those two so I'm  I'm still around we probably would have not crossed paths yeah you know what's good you're  right bro what's happening probably done my little raving whatever you but knowing that my life  realistically my structure was broken down I'm still I'm still teaching I'm still giving still  doing my bits and pieces you know they you know but the reality of it is my world is upside down  and I remember sitting down watching Pursuit for happiness and the reason I watched it is  because I said I'd been so strong for so long and in survival mode for so long that I didn't  know how to cry I wasn't crying I was going through all of this stuff but I wasn't crying  you know and I remember so I said I said I need to see something else I need to understand someone  that I need to need to see and I remember so I remember what sitting down watching Will Smith  and you know in that scene when he's in the in the train station he's like trying to hook the  door and he's like he's just holding his son he's bawling and I remember just like just  randomly disappeared that's coming down my face and I remember just it just kept coming  and I walked to a mirror and that's and it's looking at myself and I've gone I've gone now this  is what pain feels like Courtney is this sadness are you actually sad are you are you authentically  sad so my brain is like going I'm going why am I why am I breaking down my own physical form  and this point but it's because I've been strong for too long and I didn't want to dismantle that  strength to a point where it's like no that's the reason why I I needed to get a balance and that  was a point of having to go forward I'll never ever forget it and I wrote my best work I had the  best time in those in those in that 18 months that point of being free to be anything you want to be  and that point of going if this is that moment where you literally restart your engine this is  what it looks like because there is no one in the real world you know you know our society Behavior  you if people know you a certain way and then your life is that way like you okay  we're blessed with you and I we're blessed people so we've got enough people around us  like don't worry what are you doing come and see her come and see us but if you're  the same person who's not inclined to speak into people you're used to being the vessel of giving  you take all of that burden on yourself don't you yeah yeah  so going through that process taught me and showed me how powerful I what I am I remember the one  thing I did is I gathered all my work that was it when I couldn't get into the flat and all of this  stuff I gaveled all of my work it was closed you could we need clothes but my work because I was  like No And I remember lining it all up and going one of you in here one if you were getting me out  of this I don't know which one it is I'm looking at all this paper and I'm talking to this paper  stuck a plastered everywhere I was like that was it so it was that self-belief there my friend yeah  yeah so there are always carried through had to in the darkest times I had to that resonates a lot  like my darkest moment was and I spoke about this on the podcast like when my girlfriend passed away  I was in a band with my friends we were doing pretty well we'd been in the industry to the  highest levels experience being signed seeing the bright lights all that stuff then it you know  coming down a bit but we're still at a point where it was like do we want to still you know have a go  at this do we still believe and we're like yeah we still believe by the personal you know loss which  just put me in a different space and I didn't know who I was in relation to the world anymore and I  didn't know if I was in relation to the bandest thing that I was essentially like a lead singer  with my friends like people are looking to me like yo you're ready you're ready to come back and  I was so lost in the world at that point but one thing that saved me was I just picked up a guitar  that I'd never played before as I'm going to teach myself guitar and in doing that I was writing  these songs that I would have never written before because that wasn't the artist that I was  but this real life experience that changed me my voice changed when I was singing I went  from using my throat and singing really hard to singing soft with emotion I remember just  playing these chords that I was learning and as I was getting better you know after three months six  months I was like I can play a full song but I'm crying singing these songs that were all pretty  much about losing my girlfriend but that thing there are a recorded songs but never to release  it was just that's part of my process you know if you write something it's really hard to just  leave it in the ether of it not being a thing you can come back to and listen it's a really  difficult thing you know if you have an idea as a writer you're not putting pen to paper and then  being able to flip back in three years time and go oh that's where I was at at that point  these things are like small documentations of our journey and our personal experience  but it was the art that saved me but I also had to let go of a an artist that I knew that was a  really weird transition because I was this guy this artist this musician performer in a band  life would change me I was a different artist no I was a different writer and I really struggled  to go back and they did lead me to you know making the decision to leave leave the band  that was a tough decision man because these are my brothers these are my boys but my life Journey was  in a different space and it wasn't I'm gonna leave I'm gonna be on my own I'm gonna blow it was just  mentally I can't do that at the moment and I have those doubts as a creative like was  that the right decision but I also now as this point in my life as this person no  you're always exactly where you are meant to be when you were going through that toughest  time and you know you lost your house in your relationship at the same time you were exactly  where you were meant to be for the cree if that you are for those lessons to be learned  to then transform that into uh put that out and inspire people in other ways or be be allowed to  take that real life pain and when you're teaching kids about how to be a writer or a performer  you're tapping into that lowest point it can't be all like Glitz and glamor it's not like I feel  like true creatives really have to suffer for the for their art we have to feel that you had  to you had to drop that too you can't go through life as a creative without crying bro you can't  do it please we just can't do it so my thing now is at this point and I know where you know we're  more mature at this age we we reflect on life a bit different as the years are rolling on  but I'm a big believer that when you're going through a dark time that is where the most growth  happens and when you come out of that period you like a new version of you with a whole  new perspective on approaching everything and how tough would you say your journey as an artist has  been because anyone who's a creative it's very rare you get those stories where someone starts  at 15 and it's just up up up up I think the only story I've heard like that is John Mayer he seem  to have like started gigged next gig was a bigger gig gig after that was a bigger gig and he just  never stops he just went went but I'm sure if you spoke to him he would have his own take on  that in his own Journey but how how hard has you have you found it as an artist like as a creative  from when you say you started to to where you're at now which I know it's hard to feel that into  you know a few paragraphs or you know 10 minutes but how hard would you say it's actually been so before I tap on that I just want to say to you that you know when you talked about the darkness um because I just like our freelance when you're in the darkness there's how you get through that  darkness is your gratitude if you can't exit to get through your Darkness shift you have to accept  that you're in your Darkness yeah yeah and in that point that's the one that's one of the most rawest  states where you feel all of your urine you have a full license and acceptance in your body to go  upon the world or burn that or blame that person or because of this and am I going to be  accountable no I'm not going to be accountable because it's this and this situation and that  situation or you know it's that darkness is the most truthful space that you will ever be  in because it is it is like the cousin of anger you know when you're angry you allow yourself to  be angry you might want to flip a table you flip a table don't you yes because I'm angry but Darkness  has a different type of thing because it says depending on how you behave in this play in this  space your outcome at the end once it all subsides because everything does yeah would it be you're  determined the denominator for the next couple of years of your life so I just wanted to touch on  that because yeah yeah the darkness that Darkness phase and is about there's Beauty in there if you  are brave enough to understand it and there's a very strange thing now I've  learned more about the mind I've studied language the subconscious changing programs  there's a very weird thing there's a conflicting thing as I'm learning the logic to behaviors  I've also experienced Dark Times depression as an artist and it is a part of us that likes to be  there because we're Gathering Intel while we're in that place we're gathering information so  I know a lot of humans you know we keep ourselves there's always a reason we we can keep ourselves  in these spaces for longer it might not even be a creative person you know they might have  a dependency on drugs or alcohol or there's something serving them to be in this space  because they can say oh I'm this which means I'm behaving like this well I think for creatives  is a part of us that kind of likes to be there because we know we're gaining something from that  and as I've learned this other side it's a really strange thing to learn the behaviors and know how  to change it but then also really appreciate the side of it as an artist where when we're in these  spaces I know it's serving the art the thing that's going to come like you said two three  years later where you look back and go well how that thing I went through then in you know  whatever year it was now that's coming through to my creativity and that's a really strange thing to  experience different timelines where you think oh I'm done with that period of my life  and as an artist you might as a person you might feel like you've moved on but as an artist  I'm going to draw from that I can hop back to that experience and still pluck from that and  one thing I had a new respect for you was when you invite I don't know where we crossed past  but you invited us to a show and I think I came with Simeon so I think maybe you bumped  into one of us or both of us and you were like come down to this show we're doing this  I'm doing this showing I remember coming to that and I just it was the first time I had witnessed  your project on a stage and I was Blown Away bro I was humbled by the performers the age of the  performers the strength of them but then knowing you'd put all this thing together and again I can  only sit from the artist perspective as a musician as a writer getting on and getting on stage and  singing songs and knowing what that feels like but as a Cree if you're breaking down all these ah  so there are they choose this and they they say it like this and that's the Cadence for that and  why did they go this way so when it's hard as a creative to watch something because  you're not just taking it in for what it is it's a really difficult thing to do because  you're applying it to your perspective of how you write in your creation but when I  watch that show and if you want to speak a bit about that show I was just in the theater like  wow that was insane how difficult is it to put a show like that together and  do you feel like hey how long have you been doing those shows was that like the first one  because I could I just saw your journey in that yeah and you weren't performing  in that but I could see you in it so I'll say is this um I've been in Manchester 20 odd years  my steps are not by chance there's a there's there's been a focus for such a long time  and within that process I've touched a lot of spaces and I've also shared ideas and  collaborated freely and from behind the scenes because sometimes someone's just ready to go yeah  do you get what I mean I'm not probably wasn't emotionally mature enough to ready to take that  step but could see that Vision clearly so go go and run with it yeah you know  um so when I have the opportunity to when I get an opportunity to create from Myspace it comes  out in things like imprint which is with young identity which I'm associate artistic director for  um um that piece what I found is funny interesting because we were saying I remember seeing you in  the audience when you're talking and stuff putting that piece together being in the  moment with those artists it was like for me it's Art Is War for me yeah yeah and it's like  if I'm in here then you're in here and that clocks don't exist if someone catches a clock can you  manage the cow in time boy you got lucky yeah you know but the process only becomes all-encompassing  Not only was it important for me to understand the level of the artists the writers the performers  but also it was important for me to understand the words behind it the meaning I needed to understand  them because they the words were just they they went so far into my cerebral I went so intricate  yeah I had to actually at once they tried to avoid not having to make notes I was like no no I can  [ __ ] figure that day that that word sounds kind of cool and it's like no I need to know what it  means once I started understanding the meaning it started it started informing the language on stage  and it started I started I was able to then learn just what I needed to strip away and  I was like I remember a division came to us it has to just be about their bodies it's just them  and their movement and it's the sequencing so the different formations that you saw within that  piece were just the sequences that I was seeing in my head of how I was breaking down their language  and then through that I had lots of one-to-one conversations with the different young people  to figure out like this is your time this is your piece what does your piece stand for this  is what it means to me this what does it stand for for you and who in if there was someone in  the audience that you were afraid to have in the audience who you'd be the most nervous to have  that conversation with or who who would that be I've got that information yeah yeah and we invited  those things yeah yeah but the bottom line of it was is that the peace became so authentic because  now I'm operating from a space I'm I'm operating from once I got around the time frame of how long  I had to turn it around I think it's like two weeks or something like that it was something  crazy once I got that out the way my brain shifted into and this is that darkest line right once I  shifted into that space you and I'm doing things I'm having I'm having out of body experiences  because I'm going who's directing this is it me because I'm saying this and this is working  or I'm figuring they're going they will turn to me go what's this scene I'm going yeah that one  goes there and that will happen here that's it right cool let's go I'm going who's done that  but you know it's been in my body because I've been doing theater and I've been directing that  and I'm an observer I watch everything I go to shows all the time I go to things  I sit on my own I I watch things four times over you know I just I just like absorbing  I just absorb stuff so when I have my opportunity I see it all clearly  and I just and it comes out as it's a release yeah it is literally like a  because I understand that aren't that when we get this opportunity to create something it can take Years bro you can I've got to play on my desk that when I first wrote it came to me  like a dream 13 years later 14 years later this place still hasn't hasn't seen its last day but  now in my 20th year in Manchester I found someone who's ready to look at they're like yo where's  this come from I've gone 20 years 12 years ago they're like what and I'm like I've been trying  to like know your emotionally mature for it now um so you have to understand that Journey yeah yeah  so yeah so this when I when distance comes down to creating and  how I see things it's very clear and it's it does match up like there's there are some things pop  but there were loads of things about my life that are not by chance bro like you know um and  this relates to that question about how we how I overcome those struggles and what that feels like  um when you've done this amount of years what happens is it's a gift and a curse because there  are people that know if I say a birthday present people go I need to buy Courtney a pad and in one  size you go oh you know me but in the other side you go that means you've known that I've been  trying to do this for this amount of time yeah yeah how do I feel about that on top of that you  you go through so many different emotions I mean I can tell you like just even  yesterday I received like my uh uh rejection letter for a pro an opportunity to to basically  just learn be surrounded by the creatives that I've had on my my vision board and they they felt  like the stage of my career and what I'm doing supersedes it so can you imagine the complexity  the the the conflict I'm going but they're on my mood board yeah yeah I hear who I want  to work with a York out there going looking at my stuff and they're going now you've gone clear bro  the soul is the conflict because then the rest of Life still has to move like as an artist you  either you either get through quite quickly and you remain within your team and you go for your  ups and downs and then you start feeding and you you essentially someone within the team buses and  um breaks through sorry yeah and then they feed the team who's next within that Vision if that  was the intended part if that was the inertia of the reason why you all came together yeah  the other version what happens is you're a creative around many genius creatives  and you know life lives ups and downs some people get through quickly and so forth and  so forth and you remain still waiting for your moment that in terms in that in compared and in  comparison to when as you get older your wants change you might start wanting different things  you know I remember waking up and it was like yeah man I want a house like I've always wanted  a house but it wasn't a fort the the gravitas of wanting it didn't wasn't as prevalent in my mind  as going out and trying to network and do some filming or do some acting or whatever it was  so my wants have changed because I've evolved so how did so now you've got your underline which is  this is my create it's my creativity what I've been doing for all these years  and I have to do it so now you've got something that in the real world which is going to provide  your foundation your security your home your home bro your home your structure where you can  rest and paint and do whatever you want to do in there now that's coming to conflicts now you're  realizing that your art is a sacrifice now you're you are at that space of sacrifice and what does  this mean everything becomes high stake so how I feel sometimes I feel overwhelming happiness  about my journey and then sometimes I feel the most deepest sadness for why the whys and the  houses how this has this not happened in the way that I've seen it in my mind and then I've also  experienced through chance meetings you know any of those friends or those people let's go listen  I've just seen something you've done that really moved me and you go oh I am on the right path so  how I've learned to navigate this journey now where I am now right in front of you is  I actually know what I'm doing my thing my line is um God has this God has the plan yeah  as human stuff you just have to walk the steps with faith yeah as a human we will constantly  try and break down the convention that come on let me just try and put you know you try to push  you know hmm but you have to just walk it and believe it and I'm in that space now where  I know exactly what I need to do I even can see the unknown part I've looked at my journey now and  the branch and the things I've created and there's some things I now place in the miscellaneous pile  you know you know the parts where we've done great stuff but you didn't know how to document it or so  forth and so forth yeah or there's a lot of pain that's done and all the stuff that never sees the  light of day thank you that part of you that I I related to putting songs or music to the world  there's so much stuff that never leaves the hard drive or the computer or but that's still part of  your journey those things that like you said what what was that that I did I just went through that  period of a year of just making that type of thing well that was different but it was still a part of  your creative process and I think a big thing you said there was sacrifice for anyone  coming into the world of creativity and you'll experience it you know when you're teaching the  youngers and the parents are wanting them to be a creative from this perspective now  at the age we're at I mean I've missed if I think about early twenties a bit before  so many birthday parties so many family events maybe weddings things that are like real memories  like you said you know if your brothers having to sacrifice going to a different city you know you  sacrificing seeing your brothers grow up and having that connection there's so much sacrifice  that goes into being a creative throughout your life when you've been doing it this long  and also how people perceive you so I would imagine for you to start right Courtney is a  writer he's an actor oh you've been on TV yet anything I would have seen you in so those  things then you have this gauging mechanism also people see TV as success so if I'm not on TV I'm  not successful so the strange thing is recently someone said to me and initially my ego fled up  and I'm just paraphrasing but it was basically I was talking about music and my journey  and we were kind of talking about like spirituality as well and she kind of implied oh  X Y and Z is the reason you never made it so I'm like oh your perception of me as I never made it  as a creative my perception though at this is like you said is I wake up and get paid to be creative  I made it somebody pays me money to do what I love to do in the world I made it maybe at 21  my perception of making it was being on TV which we did with the boys we went on different TV shows  being on radio being on big stages that's making it but as you get older unless you're trying to  stay in that world which is not an easy thing to do that's a whole different battle which I'm kind  of glad I've not have not had my perceptions change success to me now means I wake up  I want my dog I have a coffee have a shower I sit down and I do what I love to do someone goes  there's some there's some peace for that thank you that's that's success and that's one one thing  I would really like to say to people is don't let other people's expectations of success Define  how you view your success because being a creative is not easy it's years of being  dedicated to something we see a lot of people on this path as well like we've  known each other for a long time so when I connect with people like yourself and still  see people doing the thing they were doing when we were 18. do you know how commendable  I'm like bro to see you being create I know so many people are reaching this age MidFirst is  still doing the thing and I'll just throw them a message and going bro we were doing  this from early man congratulations you're still doing it and you look at someone like  a day or bipolar Sunshine who we know he's gone clear he's living in L.A his music is  accumulating a crazy amount of streams every year and I'm like to see where we've come from to that  dreams dreams happen but you know like you said the people that you come up with everyone has  different paths and different Journeys and it's hard not to compare sometimes when you you've come  from the same place but he's relayed a few truths to me recently that I've like been so grateful  for of how he perceives me from where he's got you know could you work on this for me because  I love how you mix tracks me and my world our mixed song finish a song listen to another  guy's mixing God his mix is always on fire man why does my stuff not sound like that but then  my friend my boy who's known me for ages is listening to my stuff that I've been mixing going  Jay's stuff always sounds fire I'm going to ask him to make some stuff so and I said it's crazy  how you perceive that because I don't perceive my mixes how you perceive it then I'll ask the  question can you ever perceive your own art how somebody perceives it so there's this complex  thing that even at this age all this experience we have seeing our friends be super successful  we're still creative we're still making money from being creative so we're successful as well  it's so strange that we still have these conflicts even though we've gathered all  this experience with us 20 years plus but we still have these doubts and what do you say to you know the people you're teaching do you let them know how I'm sure you  do it's probably I'm answering the own question but do you let them know like the work that  is involved in this thing if you're gonna be committed this long yeah you know I was just  thinking about what you're saying there you know and I'm it's really interesting because when you know yourself when you know yourself you can start to begin to have an appreciation  and a hyper awareness of all of the wants and needs and things all around you the people  that you perceive to LeapFrog you know go you know you can have that when you know yourself  and then when such people you know that are now gone super clear and they come back and they tap  in and they're like yo I love what you do you then can start remember I said to you when you know  yourself you can then start to shift that energy and go and yeah of course you would call me of  course yeah I 100 know myself that when you work with me you will get exactly what you need it will  be something it will be what you need and what you feel but it will it will embody what course  rights does yeah so there's that saying isn't it everyone can pick up the pen but no one pickups  the pen No One writes the same if one picks up a brush but no one paints that you know everyone  can pick up a paintbrush but no one's Strokes are the same yeah you know I can have all of the same  mixing stuff that you have but it does not matter how much generals and dummies I have around me  saying yeah press this button I will not be able to do it the way that you do it so you have to  get to that space where it's like this is my craft this is my thing so um and that thing is something  when you when you know say I'm doing my thing what I like to do now is layer that when someone says  I see you doing your thing I go yeah you know what I do if they if it doesn't go any further  I go yeah you know what I'm actually working on this really amazing incredible script and it's  a melodrama and it's doing this I just throw that out there whether they are capturing that  it's because I can't allow my thing I can't even allow myself to demote my years in the game yeah  personally all right industry great but personally when I'm at home when I'm thinking about it when  I'm in the shower when I'm walking when I'm making those those decisions on how my life is going to  go those are things I cannot allow to I Can't Forget so when I have the opportunity and I'm  going to branch on just a little touch on this the Journey of the young people because I've got  a big thing about this right now at the moment where you know we have to invest in the young  people and we do we will always do that however I've got friends that are my age that are lost um  so what hang on hang on well I'm gonna keep giving the little the little young jeez the the  trinkets when I've got people when it's guys my age who I'm going to access for the help because  to support and to talk to that where what we're just we're supposed to be lost in the wind no  so what I always say to the young people one of them one of my tasks I was doing I always give  them a blank piece of paper before I work with them and I go and write yourself on monologue  about yourself I don't care it can be a pain it's a there's your piece of paper if you end up  writing two lines then that's what you've written there's the accountability right there and then  it's before I've I'm trying to teach people before you go and ask someone for something know what  you're asking yeah know what you're asking and also it's teaching you to Value people's time  but also value your own mind if you don't know what you're on and you've called someone out  you know you've articulated A really lovely text email phone call whatever voice note and  then they've left their house you don't know what their day's been like and then they come  and you have don't have the faintest idea about what yours what you're saying  you've just seen something on the hype you've seen someone that they've placed up you know I know you  get this a lot when you place because I I love I love your work bro when I tell you openly yeah you  know I love your work and I love when you explain yourself and you're like oh you know I haven't  done this for a while and I'm like bro just do you're such a G oh yeah you're such a g bro you're  you're a technical genius in your game I see it but that's the perception isn't it and these are  the years now you say yeah two years ago three years I've got to a point where I'm like oh I'm  actually good at this thing because like I said people people are willing to pay me exactly for  this and it's not always about money but that's the thing that Society lets us gauge oh you're  doing well yeah but it's really made me realize that maybe it comes with maturity and something  shifted and then conversations I'm having like you know like with Adele who you know you're like he's  doing the numbers he's in he's in L.A he's got that you know that is what we all would think  actors creatives musicians Hollywood he lives literally in Hollywood he's smashing it like  unreal and it's when those conversations come back you're like oh that's just he's still my boy from  like we may start making music at 15. it's still that same connection and it's a musical connection  and it's a long journey of friendship and you forget that because you've not done x amount of  numbers or you've not appeared on 20 TV shows or whatever it is you forget that  you really are great and it's so strange and that's again the conflict I'm saying it takes  sometimes another creative to tell you how great you are because whilst you're in the process of 20  years experience you still forget along the way of how good you are I'm going to add on to that  um you know what you do and it's one thing I do and then I think I think a lot more if I should do  is give yourself some days times in your months I don't know how you can figure out your sort of  flow to look just listen listen read look at your work privately personally like appreciate it like  really play your music when we play other artists and read over all these books and all of this  stuff and we're investing all that in these dope people that have come up that have managed to get  their Creative Vision into a space where it's now reached you you need to do the same thing  for yourself yeah I tell you I know before the TV you know accolades mate that's in the Stars before  the TV accolades if I'm not even reading my own scripts my own scripts that I've set month after  month years some some of those worked a job come home chugged it didn't know if it was the right  form run done a rewrite and I've completed it end to end and I can't sit myself and read my own work like I'm telling you taking time to invest in your own craft which is just appreciating  what you do yeah and knowing where that came from gives you all of the helps you  combat what Society teaches you about what is the definition of making it I I now have my I  have my goals and I know what I like and I can go yeah I would love to touch this and I touch that  however if you're not loving this part this part this journey part in the middle  you're gonna miss the debt when you get you up to your destination you're going to miss  it it's just going to be like a blip yeah it's not you're not real you know and that will come in so  many different forms the wrong people be around you you might be on your own it might not look  and feel how it's supposed to have felt you know you might not process someone might someone read  someone you might have that chance moment where someone asks you about your craft or your work I  said hey I really loved what you did and because you'll be focused so far ahead you don't answer  that question the right way yeah so you miss it so what was it all for so like the same thing when I  said well I do with my young people you know and I stopped teaching for a while after I I just had a  massive after I had given my soul to these kids because I really believed in them that I mean  they can I'm still in I'm still connected to them to this day but I remember one kid in particular  Tilly she's doing big big big things but this is what she said to me as I've said until he  was like maybe that 9 12 9 9 10 she said to me I was going to teach and she turned to me and  I didn't know that she was already doing stuff in the industry because she was traveling from Leeds  coming to Manchester and she turned to me and she went when are you going to do for you Courtney  I'm like hmm she's like when are you good she says when are you gonna give back to yourself  and I'm like what are you talking about I'm like my mind I'm going tell it I love you now  but yeah you know then she's like so I said I asked her what her day was like like what does  she do in her life and she started explaining she looked at what picked up a script and then  she broke it down from her Indus what she does in the industry and this is a youngster but her  information was extensive so I'm now going do I need to take notes I'm saying this in  my mind I'm going do I need to take notes Fast Track by the end of this conversation  I said to her you need to go and teach her you need to go and teach the lesson  so she's like I can't teach I said dear you can you've just taught a fully grown adult  you've just told me out of all of this given you've just told me that I need to stop and  I need to go and focus and do something for myself so I said you need to go and tell your  kids she's like my kids I said yeah you're the teacher now you need to go and tell your kids  how this how this into how this war runs and I'm going to sit as a student in your classroom  and I that's how I do it and I sat in there watched her and I I've never seen  students respond in the way that they did the light in the room because they were hearing it  from someone their own age and I realized how they were looking at me now they're like well  you're older than us Courtney and you're going to go this way and I used to always  say to the young people I said I said with the information I give you you're going to Eclipse me  I said but I'm it's good I said because the information I give you is gold it's from my body  it's from my soul it's from everything there's no it's unfiltered so that journey and how it feels  for us you know struggling and being in these years if we do not invest in our own craft and  that means by listening giving the love back to our own work then we will mess up and Miss  opportunities interacting whether we're networking whether it's collaborating whether it's hearing  someone else's art we'll miss all of those nuances because we're lost and we can't be lost if we go  back to our own drawing board because that's what we do it for 100 that resonates because I listen  to a lot of my old music I think because I I write music create music produce it mix it engineer it  when you create it straight to the car wherever I'm going in the car for  weeks if I'm getting ready to release a song every journey is me listening intently every  time I step by the house airpods I'm listening to that song but then years later I'll go back  to songs I release the even unreleased stuff in it it made me realize recently  having a conversation with my friend a Dale saying you know bro your mix is a on point  I'm like yeah and this is again struggling to accept a compliment it's like you say that bro  but I was listening to some songs from 2016. I didn't release them but whatever I was doing  at that point was golden because I'm listening to those mixes like that wasn't me doing those  mixes everything is perfection placed perfectly like happy time it was your happy space it was  it was me not going for the best of times but like we said Throwing It All into that art and whatever  I was doing was perfect and it was actually a time when USD came around to to my mum's guy  and I played you a couple of songs it was those songs I listened to him recently and I'm like  wow that makes us the wrong point so now I'm like I'm trying to reverse engineer  like what was I doing what was I listening to at that point what was I getting inspired by  for those mixes to sound amazing and sometimes you forget the knowledge that we've accumulated  because I'm a very practicing person so if you ask me to make something sound this way  I can do it if you go Jay break down the steps of everything you've done and what that does I'm not  going to give you the full technical analysis I'll give you the roof because I don't fully go  into depth of these things it's just I've done it since I was 15. so it's like an autopilot  thing and there's always going to be people out there that you know you think are better  than you and there is people that are better than you at a certain thing but we can't underestimate  how great we are you can't underestimate the power of self yeah yeah because that's where  your wealth is bro you understand if you start if you devaluate your wealth devalue yourself  and you what you do you allow yourself to be susceptible to others to speak on you yeah and  you have to rate yourself in it because otherwise and you know what one thing you said that's just  triggered something my girlfriend works out in America a lot so she deals a lot with American  culture and again keep going back to Adele's out there so he he's experiencing it and I  know obviously we've been there but I think our culture is very reserved when we're like  I'm James what that's it what do you do James that's like the next question I'm a music producer  other cool interesting people then have to ask you more about that for you to reveal  more about that thing that's kind of our culture Americans are more hey this is what I do this is  what I've done nice to meet you because within that delivery they're opening themselves up to  opportunity this is what I this is who I am this is what I do do you have anything we can exchange  to be successful their coach is more about that this is me this is what I do  and the more open and forthright with it and I feel like us British people in our like we were  more closed down we're more guarded I I'm corny I do this you know so when you said that you talk  that extra thing I think we all need to do that as creatives because we really like it we just go oh  yeah I'm just a music producer what do you mean just the music producer like talk talk you talk  tell people what you do and I'm talking to myself saying this because in that you're engaging in  Opportunity you're engaging in the next experience with that person might have been waiting for that  sentence to land in their brain because they've been looking for you in their world they've been  waiting to hear oh and I need a music producer well actually I need a screenplay writer is that  what you do tell me more if we're reserved about what we do we're missing opportunities and I think  Americans are so much better and it kind of shows why they're entertainment industry is so big and  so huge because they live within that culture of hey this is who I am this is what I've done  yeah speak on that and let's connect and it was it's great to hear you say and that's  what you do now as well yeah you talk it up you don't let someone's impression be what  they think you could be it's this is what I do and I'm working on this great thing  what I do is great yeah you have to um there are there were certain spaces that I've been  off late where I've had to I knew I would for example I knew I'm going into it I'm in the  I'm about to I'm in an unknown space in my life at the moment where everything is going to be checked  it's inevitable yeah I remember speaking to my mentor and just said ah listen I said I don't know  what's happening but I don't think I've got any choice on what happens to my life at this point  as I can just feel it's going to change and different things were happening over the last  couple of weeks and the way I was navigating through these situations I realized I had to  manage how emotionally connected I was to those situations like say something was bad how angry  how long was I going to remain in a in a funk was that actually you know what that just let it go  so like moving into the space now it's really important like bro it's so important that  um that you just know why like you know you said to you saying oh when there was some music you  wrote and he was like how do you how did I how was I creating that and I said happy space and I said  I said happy space and use that you was like no it was a dark time do you remember what I said about  that that dark space how we negate that that space so how we Channel ourselves do you understand what  I'm trying to say bro the I'm sorry say that again reload that right your dark space is your happy  time because of how you're choosing to be in that dark space yeah you have to negate in that space  there it's like your attitude people people use like attitude of gratitude and stuff like  that you know and and I'm throwing it away because sometimes when you listen to this think about when  we do these things we we say sometimes we say such profound things but actually because we have not  learned our first part which is to appreciate what we have you know this is outside of anyone telling  us yeah you know like sometimes when one time I made a beans on toast yeah brother the beans and  toast tastes so cold to me and I'm sat there and I'm going bro these beans on toes up amazing right  now in that moment I'm appreciating the simple simple thing I've got but this is  what I've got I've got free pan in my pocket I've made this work the cheese everything's  working and I'm grateful yeah I know that's we're creative so you understand where we go with this  bringing it back into what I mean by this dark space is that in that time in those places where  you don't know what is going on or someone is in someone has said an energy or someone  has made you feel a certain way or you've made yourself feel a certain way in that space your  life is now changing you have to in that space figure out where is the joy where's the beauty  in there okay if it's if it's immense pain what am I doing with that immense pain yeah what is it and  you create from that space and as you come out of it my brother as you come out of that space yeah  you don't even know how far you've grown you don't even know  like you say you listening to them that music then you're like brah I need to do that  um I need to do that years later so it's that thing you were doing then because it's  a juxtaposition that that's a juxtaposition of our of a really traumatic time because whereas  as artists we're taught yo when I'm in my pain I wonder if I wanna I need to create from Pain  however it was a juxtaposition you've got your pain but then you've got your passion yeah your  your right your gift and your gift with the pain and all different what's going on your your gift  just was like okay yo we're gonna just we're gonna just create this thing here James yeah  he's saying you're right bro we're just gonna just do what we're doing here you know I'm gonna  get back out of it and you'll laugh and there's things subside you're gonna continue with your  life but you know what bro you're going to have a marker you're gonna you're gonna have a definite  Mark of something that's personal to you but it's what is essentially the closest to your best work  did you get it yeah yeah is that is that investment in yourself  that will keep you running in those years that helps you to top up because as the art game is  we can talk about it not being fruitful it being fruitful it being for this you know the game is supposed to be it's supposed to be fluid it's supposed to have these Ebbs and flows  it's supposed to test you because you're actually testing yourself you're saying to the world  when you wake up I'm going to be up for me I'm going to write a play and this play is going to  be seen by a hundred thousand people who are you of course I'm I'm Courtney in my flat and  I am going to write this play maybe three to four hours a day around everything else I've got to do  in comparison to her well other screenplay writers they do it every single day in the mountains free  on you well I've got to go to work I've got to go link my pleasure in I might even go for  a rave but when inspiration catches me I'm going to write yeah but my play is going to get there  barbecue this is how mad that sounds yet it's to believe my brother you have to recognize your you  have to remember your you have to remember what you're you have to remember your power man yeah  and it's going to be overlooked I always knew when I moved up here I was going to be overlooked in  my craft because I was there were certain things in my body I hadn't learned I hadn't like I was  London understood the money game yeah then I moved up here wasn't interested was it was  my focus was more people as you guys are born here your life is evolving differently you've  grown up from school you this is your this is your home so you're thinking about different  things go listen I need to get a job on this on at this level at this stage and so forth we all  are at different stages but one thing for sure what your art does and I come back to your art  is it is your truth and if you're brave enough and you want it enough you know it will stick  with you even when you fall out of love with it art just remains yeah it just sticks yeah  it does it just sticks with you and you can tap into it and tap out but if you really want  it then you have to go you have to build it as a relationship like you would with anyone else I'm  going to argue with you I'm going to talk to you I'm going to I'm going to introduce you to people  please don't be rude yeah you know we're going to fail we're gonna fail and we're gonna have  triumphant moments but those triumphant moments might actually only happen in our headphones yeah  how'd you feel about it well you think that's in it we've got to go that's the thing I think  I've had conversations recently I don't think I can ever stop this thing it's never stopping  and is those sometimes it is oh I made a song today and I'm I'm walking down the street and  I'm listening to it it didn't exist this morning that's a win that's a win because it's even about us sometimes like I said it's coming from elsewhere and we need to get out of  our own way and channel listing and turn it into something we can observe listen to see through  our senses our limited senses and go oh that was interesting and whether five billion people  listening to it or just you it exists and that's what it's about and that's a really big battle as  an artist I think is we live in a numbers Society now everything's likes you know likes and love what if you never got anyone liking any or uh ever again you're gonna stop doing it  I think I tried to at one stage yeah hey I'm buttoning questions yeah yeah so yeah it is something we can't escape and I think a thread what we're trying to see  through this is you know through the darkest times it's a weird thing being a creative and there  might be people who aren't creatives listening being a career if is synonymous with mental health  the art and the creativity can make your mental health suffer  but whilst you're going through an episode of like life is affecting your mental health it can  also be the thing that saves your mental health that's if I was to summarize being an artist for  me that's what it is like when life is hitting you hard this thing here Gets You Through It but  sometimes this thing here can be the thing that's making life feel hard because especially again the  sacrifice mid twin is people are now in successful jobs big wages big houses big cars married 2.4  children and you're here the artists like yo bro what's my next screenplay in your gas and that's  a that's a thing that is a struggle that a lot of people don't talk about but the people like I  said that have stayed dedicated throughout these years that we've known each other I just look at  people like bro I love to Ste still see you doing your thing like you know steering we could name  everyone from our Circle there's so many and I want to start bringing people to as we're  talking now I'm like who could I bring into this conversation with us too that I know is is gonna  just be another great experience for the people that are tapping in and listening here because  we're building a nice community of people that want to grow and they want to learn  from people's stories and experiences and we've all got something to speak about we've all been  through like you said individual things that when you start bringing conversations together there's  power in our stories and you don't necessarily always have to be a celebrity you know with that  big 10 million Instagram following to be able to impact on someone's life conversation and  words are powerful you'll know that being a writer like someone who studies Words Words of Power so  I can feel how great this conversation you know is and people how people are going to receive it  if you could summarize this is a not an easy question I don't think  what's been one of your biggest life lessons okay one of my biggest life lessons was to remember the power of my voice and how to use it um what I mean by that is for me to make certain steps and changes in my life  I had to and I would go to people that I wanted to speak to about those changes there was another  requirement that I didn't realize and ending that knowledge at the time and it was going you need to  be the reason you've chosen that person is because you see that these are their values this is their  value system that you see in them whether they're No Nonsense whether they're straight to the point  whether they're good listeners they're deep thinkers you know whether they take  on your gibberish but they ingest it whilst you're thinking that you've walked off and then you know  so when I understood that understanding the power of my voice and my thoughts is the been  the most impactful phase in my life because it's helped me to channel the way that I my thoughts  my insecure is it's helped me to be more specific and value of my own time and of people's time it's  helped me to really start to see map out paths and actually see what my habits are and that as a gift  is a testament to the way that I was born from being born to now  and all of those confusions because if you forget if you don't feel you know your voice and you're  scared to be truthful you know you know and say how you feel then you're wasting time you really  are you're wasting time because what happens is you will always know you've heard that saying you  know like when you say and you're outside in the world you're like yeah man everything's cool man  everything's cool corn and you shut your door and you everyone has experienced that door the moment  you shut your door and that silence thing is like it's just you and me you know that feeling so you  know it can happen for a second but you know you've done all the hey hey and then the door  shuts and it's just uh oh is it us yeah yeah so I have now learned to be more more focused more  real with when I speak with people and that means that's not through just need that's like  if someone speaks to me like when we first when we were speaking about your music video it was  yes bro whatever you need it doesn't matter to me I just you're my guy I love you like there's  no heirs and Graces for me it's just like yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes and let's get so  now I want to know how you feel you know and so I can help you navigate how you're you know because  you're such a respectful man so you'll be like I just want to value your time yeah both we need to  chop this up for 10 hours and it needs to go over a course of a week that's all we need to say we're  doing and I've got y'all and it's that power of our voice is the thing that I've I think if more  people do it you know and you'd get more a happier ecosystem in the world yeah I know  also just last thing sorry is creatives we're all creatives you know I have friends that are  like doctors and have friends that have opened coffee houses and I have friends that smash it  on paperwork you know like that documents you're an artist because your brain is wired and geared  to figure to figure that thing out it's that's your music yeah if you're a cleaner and you  have an ability to go and look at a big gigantic office space and go yeah I'll do that in an hour  and you're whistling away and people are looking at you and you you can pick up the  rubbish and all of those things that people you know um turn their nose up but you don't  see it as that you see it as no I'm actually I'm contributing to creating a cleaning space  yeah and by being clean means that you guys stay healthy which means that your home lives continue  that means everything your ecosystems work to get what I'm trying to say so we're all creatives it's  just understanding our creativity and being proud of it a lot more and actually understanding and  being honest about whether your creativity is about the win that the glitz and glamor or if  you want to start enjoying it from now and let all of those raw feelings like oh I just want more to  happen now it's up to you so yeah understanding your voice externally and internally yeah yeah  truth is the foundation to everything I think as as we go you know we grow older  and and you get to know yourself more and more life experiences and you're more sure of yourself  you operate from Australian place as young men it's like let me go gym and  see how big I can get and there's a lot of bravado or amongst your friends and  you might be thinking about girls and going out and getting drunk it's pretty much our life  when we're young as you get older you realize it's friendships and realness to me is tied in  what type of conversation can I have with you as a person if I come to you have a problem How Deeply  are you going to be able to help me and vice versa it's more those real connected things that  we appreciate and as you grow I definitely find myself speaking in more truth sometimes as well  you might finish a sentence and you go wow is that me did I really just flow like that  and it's taking that moment and going oh that's the true version of me and the world  when you when you then reinforce that with you know I need to do more of that I need to  speak more of the truth start to realize your life shifts and more positive things come in  and I think that's why we've known probably this conversation was going to happen we  probably weren't aware years ago but we we knew we're going to connect and I'm glad we've been  able to do this because you're someone that I look to and if I see someone new like you still  doing it I'm still gonna do it do you know what I mean if I see if I was like if I if I bumped  into you in the street I was like yes bro you do anything ah just stuck to all you know I'd  be like [ __ ] is it that time of life then is it does that mean I'm gonna stop it soon  so I look at you like as a creative Beacon I really respect what you do and what you're about  what are your future plans where do you see life going from now what are you trying to  manifest yeah this is a nice question so um um right now I've been my future focus is  um I've got I'm building a universe at the moment um a project that's been well essentially I  believe is my my best work it will be my it's my life's work in fact yeah I know it's my last work  um and that will basically that will open up all my possibilities in my life  um because it's gonna be it's informed by everything that I've ever wanted from a child  family positive bonds with my friends upkeep of my brotherhood being a being a stand-up guy  being a a guy that can provide you know provide and I mean providing sternly but  also providing for myself my spirituality it's everything it's just my whole world and I've  been working on it for such a long time but it's now at a space where I'm going to start  sharing it out there now I'm smiling because even your smile yeah well it is it's just because I've  been I you know because I've been working on it for a while and I've done a number  of different things that are out in the IFA and if at some point you'll see it you go oh  my gosh it was all connected but it's I've kept it as a very private space for me yeah  um and there are the right voices and ears are around it now and it's it has to be this way so  um my future for my my future prospects are I'm going to be I'm still going to be making my films  I'm going to push forever in my directing I'm still mentoring teaching will never ever leave me  it would just never leave me yeah you don't teach you don't the things that you would do for free  you know you don't even believe you are you know so that will always be there  I'm looking forward to connecting with more and more creatives and more and more people  um that are at their space of wanting to make a leap but understanding what that leap is  um I'm looking forward to just really building some of these new wants in my mind that have  started to manifest you know like I said I started thinking more about family structures and stuff  and I started thinking a lot about what this survival thing this survival living I've been  doing for such a long time um sometimes everyone I've wanted to break down that Convention of when  people see me they're like our course is always good in one sense I am yes I am I'm very blessed  but I also struggle like everyone else I just haven't forgotten that everyone  I just haven't forgotten how life you know how people you know to be grateful  for other people's lives so yeah my life is going to be moving creatively down a very  um strong path and it will cross over into many different mediums and stuff and yeah I love to  hear it man and bro you're you're one of Life's Good Guys man trust me people who are listening  please go back and listen to this again because I swear on the second list and third you will  hear gems that you might have missed first time around I'll be going to edit this and then I'll be  listening again so I'm looking forward to hearing what I've missed whilst we're in the flow because  on that second process that third process you're someone who I know who has a lot of wealth of knowledge but the way you deliver that in words because of your art form and  the things you've studied you're just someone who I I respect and admire with your craft and  I wish you all the best bro this is not me saying goodbye we're gonna do this I said to Connie like  I said sort of a guest I just want to get people in a conversation back on get listeners familiar  with this great community that we've known for a long time and even you know new people coming  through and connect's not just creators but you know people like Maureen on the show who is a  emotional therapist that shines lights on things that make sense that we've probably suffered with  as creatives for 20 years and it's starting to work this whole new circuit and we've got lessons  on the other end of it which is a beautiful thing but bro I wish you all the best Monday I really  do and I'm excited for your next journey and if you ever see Courtney's name on a show or  go and see this guy just if he's created a show or he's performing and you're in Manchester or  wherever that that show is take time to do it because you'll come away from it like wow  I've just learned something but I appreciate you coming bro today and we'll do this again  and for everyone listening where can people find you yeah so um um the best thing to do  is to connect with me on Instagram you know it's just it's a nice comfortable space  um it's a good it's a good space right now so you can connect let me there at Courtz Writes  um and yeah you want to reach out just message me you know the social media world is Bonkers  but you know you're talking to a real person behind it so you send a message you'll get a  message back and we'll just chat yeah man if you ever need me bro you know where I am you  can like we've always supported each other in that way you've always dropped super kind words  when they're needed and I'm seeing that straight back to you if you ever need me in life anything  creative hit me up the same way and I've got you like you've always had me appreciate that if you  want to support the podcast you can find the links in the description it's a labor of love we're not  doing it for you know monetary game but if you want to show some love and support you can do that  the biggest thing you can do is pass this on to someone who might benefit from this conversation  with Courtney and thanks again for listening thanks to Courtney I can't wait to go back and  listen to this one bro so appreciate you remember no matter what you're going through no matter  how hard life gets life is good life is sound stay blessed and we'll see you on the next one